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	<title>Comments on: The naked tail: how online social networks are destroying offline social conventions</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/</link>
	<description>Think.  It ain&#039;t illegal yet...</description>
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		<title>By: whythawk</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/comment-page-1/#comment-1443</link>
		<dc:creator>whythawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 06:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=241#comment-1443</guid>
		<description>Ooh, dear Mr Ghost, don&#039;t go there.  We had a huge flaming ning-nong a few weeks ago about precisely that point.  I think the general consensus was, &quot;Yes.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooh, dear Mr Ghost, don&#8217;t go there.  We had a huge flaming ning-nong a few weeks ago about precisely that point.  I think the general consensus was, &#8220;Yes.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Nixon's Ghost</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/comment-page-1/#comment-1444</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Nixon's Ghost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=241#comment-1444</guid>
		<description>Lou,

can you elaborate on your theory of the beard for all us slow old men please? Not sure I understand you there.

Mr. Hawk,
if everyone &quot;seeing&quot; makes the &quot;sociopaths go into hiding,&quot; then I guess everyone commenting anonymously in this blog-forum must be sociopathic in some way, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lou,</p>
<p>can you elaborate on your theory of the beard for all us slow old men please? Not sure I understand you there.</p>
<p>Mr. Hawk,<br />
if everyone &#8220;seeing&#8221; makes the &#8220;sociopaths go into hiding,&#8221; then I guess everyone commenting anonymously in this blog-forum must be sociopathic in some way, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Identity 2.0 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The naked tail: how online social networks are destroying offline social conventions</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/comment-page-1/#comment-1442</link>
		<dc:creator>Identity 2.0 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The naked tail: how online social networks are destroying offline social conventions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=241#comment-1442</guid>
		<description>[...] Scholars and Rogues Identity [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Scholars and Rogues Identity [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/comment-page-1/#comment-1433</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 10:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=241#comment-1433</guid>
		<description>Michael:  May your doodles produce a book... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael:  May your doodles produce a book&#8230; <img src='http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: whythawk</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/comment-page-1/#comment-1441</link>
		<dc:creator>whythawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 06:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=241#comment-1441</guid>
		<description>I think the &quot;forces&quot; acting to reinforce this sense of tribe, of &quot;us&quot; vs &quot;them&quot;, is the nature of the software.

Back when email was a closed loop (AOL clients could only email other AOL clients, same for other networks) it created real barriers to entry - exclusive tribes.  When the first interoperable systems came available it levelled everything out and made the Internet truly flat.

Now we&#039;re going back to those closed loops - if MySpace and Facebook and SecondLife and all the rest could inter-communicate then there is less scope for tribe-like behaviour.  More importantly, if &quot;everyone&quot; can &quot;see&quot; then the sociopaths go back into hiding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the &#8220;forces&#8221; acting to reinforce this sense of tribe, of &#8220;us&#8221; vs &#8220;them&#8221;, is the nature of the software.</p>
<p>Back when email was a closed loop (AOL clients could only email other AOL clients, same for other networks) it created real barriers to entry &#8211; exclusive tribes.  When the first interoperable systems came available it levelled everything out and made the Internet truly flat.</p>
<p>Now we&#8217;re going back to those closed loops &#8211; if MySpace and Facebook and SecondLife and all the rest could inter-communicate then there is less scope for tribe-like behaviour.  More importantly, if &#8220;everyone&#8221; can &#8220;see&#8221; then the sociopaths go back into hiding.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/comment-page-1/#comment-1437</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 01:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=241#comment-1437</guid>
		<description>A watched beard never grows</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A watched beard never grows</p>
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		<title>By: Sunfell</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/comment-page-1/#comment-1436</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunfell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 00:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=241#comment-1436</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad that I was only able to record my more maudlin teenaged angst in Big Chief notebooks back in the day. At least I could burn them, as well as outgrow the usual social faux pas of early adulthood. The internet was only a glimmer in a few peoples&#039; eyes back then, and I&#039;m grateful for that.

Today&#039;s kids and young adults don&#039;t have the option of ceremonially burning the paper journals of their youth. Their idealistic and awkward probings into growing up will be around to embarrass them forever- or until the last server crashes. This is one time where I&#039;m glad I&#039;m a bit older, and the Internet didn&#039;t exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad that I was only able to record my more maudlin teenaged angst in Big Chief notebooks back in the day. At least I could burn them, as well as outgrow the usual social faux pas of early adulthood. The internet was only a glimmer in a few peoples&#8217; eyes back then, and I&#8217;m grateful for that.</p>
<p>Today&#8217;s kids and young adults don&#8217;t have the option of ceremonially burning the paper journals of their youth. Their idealistic and awkward probings into growing up will be around to embarrass them forever- or until the last server crashes. This is one time where I&#8217;m glad I&#8217;m a bit older, and the Internet didn&#8217;t exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael "Ubertramp" Pecaut</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/comment-page-1/#comment-1435</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael "Ubertramp" Pecaut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 00:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=241#comment-1435</guid>
		<description>Elain, it&#039;s funny that you used the word Tribe.  I&#039;ve been doodling around with a book about artificial life for about 5 years now with Sam and the idea of Tribes came up very early on.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elain, it&#8217;s funny that you used the word Tribe.  I&#8217;ve been doodling around with a book about artificial life for about 5 years now with Sam and the idea of Tribes came up very early on.  <img src='http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Michael "Ubertramp" Pecaut</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/comment-page-1/#comment-1434</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael "Ubertramp" Pecaut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 23:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=241#comment-1434</guid>
		<description>What scares and excites me is that these electonic social networks are actually living things.  Sam and I have been talking about this sort of thing for years.  Think about the Salem Witch Trials times a few million.  Think of what could happen with that sort of social momentum.  Then think about what would happen when you have two diametrically opposed social networks.  How do you control that?  And what do you do when it spills off infospace and into realspace (assuming, of course, there&#039;s any real separation to begin with)?

Right now, networks are fairly minor.  Facebook and myspace are fairly disorganized.  But people are learning how to change that.  Advertising agencies, hate groups, terrorist groups.  Look at the porn industry.  Maybe even 2nd Life.  All of these will, eventually, take on a life of their own, independent of individuals.  And then we&#039;ll have some serious fun.

I guess it won&#039;t ALL be bad.  Look at the music industry.  There&#039;s already a war going on right now between a social network and &quot;realworld&quot; companies, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What scares and excites me is that these electonic social networks are actually living things.  Sam and I have been talking about this sort of thing for years.  Think about the Salem Witch Trials times a few million.  Think of what could happen with that sort of social momentum.  Then think about what would happen when you have two diametrically opposed social networks.  How do you control that?  And what do you do when it spills off infospace and into realspace (assuming, of course, there&#8217;s any real separation to begin with)?</p>
<p>Right now, networks are fairly minor.  Facebook and myspace are fairly disorganized.  But people are learning how to change that.  Advertising agencies, hate groups, terrorist groups.  Look at the porn industry.  Maybe even 2nd Life.  All of these will, eventually, take on a life of their own, independent of individuals.  And then we&#8217;ll have some serious fun.</p>
<p>I guess it won&#8217;t ALL be bad.  Look at the music industry.  There&#8217;s already a war going on right now between a social network and &#8220;realworld&#8221; companies, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/comment-page-1/#comment-1440</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 13:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=241#comment-1440</guid>
		<description>... try the phrase &quot;internet tribes&quot;...


Some tribes get on better with other tribes.

Social can be happy.  Community can be good.  Network can be good.  All can be subverted. All can be corrupted.  All can be evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; try the phrase &#8220;internet tribes&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>Some tribes get on better with other tribes.</p>
<p>Social can be happy.  Community can be good.  Network can be good.  All can be subverted. All can be corrupted.  All can be evil.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/comment-page-1/#comment-1439</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 13:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=241#comment-1439</guid>
		<description>Back in the early days of the Net many rosy-hued hosannas were sung over the virtual community. It was to usher in a new era of community consciousness, communal values, community this, community that - really, you could barely say hello without working in some utopian pronouncement about community.

Of course, what was left out was that communities have their downsides. Salem, Mass., during the witch-hunts, was an archetypally American community of the first order. The community I grew up in was overrun with idiots and bullies and racists and sexists and people who were fated to learn about the inside of prison life.

We rarely look as critically as some words as we should. Community, social, network - none of these are inherently happy words when you get down the reality of things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in the early days of the Net many rosy-hued hosannas were sung over the virtual community. It was to usher in a new era of community consciousness, communal values, community this, community that &#8211; really, you could barely say hello without working in some utopian pronouncement about community.</p>
<p>Of course, what was left out was that communities have their downsides. Salem, Mass., during the witch-hunts, was an archetypally American community of the first order. The community I grew up in was overrun with idiots and bullies and racists and sexists and people who were fated to learn about the inside of prison life.</p>
<p>We rarely look as critically as some words as we should. Community, social, network &#8211; none of these are inherently happy words when you get down the reality of things.</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/02/the-naked-tail-how-online-social-networks-are-destroying-offline-social-conventions/comment-page-1/#comment-1438</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 12:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=241#comment-1438</guid>
		<description>Excellent.

...but we are our memories. :)  You may want and choose to forget (great) but you can always count on someone else remembering...:)

There is honour associated with memories but that is usually formalised, ritualised, established practice often found in national life, in the military etc or in ancestor worship.

...as for being &#039;stalked&#039; by those people from yesteryear.  I doubt it is that prevalent.  To have contact with someone one lost contact with because of decisions made that were beyond your own control can be wonderful.

Last year the web brought me contact from childhood friends in S.A. but apart from the odd email there is no contact now.  We just ran out of things to say once we had caught up and they understood why I had been &quot;wrenched&quot; from their lives to quote the friends concerned. Lovely to catch up and have a few questions answered on both sides but life carries on...

You may not have an emotional connection with people who communicate through the web but I know plenty of people who do, including family members.

Until fairly recently the culture of Britain was, in the main, distrustful of web social networking and it was a big no no even to consider dating someone, or meeting up with an individual.  I probably fell into that category big time (for reasons of security, safety etc).  I am still conservative and cautious in my approach.

...but I am constantly amazed how many people  now talk about meeting partners, making friends etc through the web.

Professionals being the biggest networkers of all...why?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent.</p>
<p>&#8230;but we are our memories. <img src='http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   You may want and choose to forget (great) but you can always count on someone else remembering&#8230;:)</p>
<p>There is honour associated with memories but that is usually formalised, ritualised, established practice often found in national life, in the military etc or in ancestor worship.</p>
<p>&#8230;as for being &#8216;stalked&#8217; by those people from yesteryear.  I doubt it is that prevalent.  To have contact with someone one lost contact with because of decisions made that were beyond your own control can be wonderful.</p>
<p>Last year the web brought me contact from childhood friends in S.A. but apart from the odd email there is no contact now.  We just ran out of things to say once we had caught up and they understood why I had been &#8220;wrenched&#8221; from their lives to quote the friends concerned. Lovely to catch up and have a few questions answered on both sides but life carries on&#8230;</p>
<p>You may not have an emotional connection with people who communicate through the web but I know plenty of people who do, including family members.</p>
<p>Until fairly recently the culture of Britain was, in the main, distrustful of web social networking and it was a big no no even to consider dating someone, or meeting up with an individual.  I probably fell into that category big time (for reasons of security, safety etc).  I am still conservative and cautious in my approach.</p>
<p>&#8230;but I am constantly amazed how many people  now talk about meeting partners, making friends etc through the web.</p>
<p>Professionals being the biggest networkers of all&#8230;why?</p>
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