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	<title>Comments on: CU and the Churchill Affair: how did this happen in the first place?</title>
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	<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/</link>
	<description>Think.  It ain&#039;t illegal yet...</description>
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		<title>By: Ward Churchill v. CU v. the people: knee-deep in the muck &#124; Scholars and Rogues</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-96245</link>
		<dc:creator>Ward Churchill v. CU v. the people: knee-deep in the muck &#124; Scholars and Rogues</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jul 2011 02:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-96245</guid>
		<description>[...] faculty committes found serious fault with Churchill&#8217;s scholarship. Churchill&#8217;s various claims are unconvincing, at best. The practices of cultures with oral [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] faculty committes found serious fault with Churchill&#8217;s scholarship. Churchill&#8217;s various claims are unconvincing, at best. The practices of cultures with oral [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Human Race toward Self Realization &#171; Plantation Life</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5514</link>
		<dc:creator>The Human Race toward Self Realization &#171; Plantation Life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 22:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5514</guid>
		<description>[...] , Discrimination , racism&#160;  I read with interest a post made by Sam Smith of the web log, Rogues and scholars, concerning the dismissal of Ward Churchill, a professor there. In his post he made the following [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] , Discrimination , racism&nbsp;  I read with interest a post made by Sam Smith of the web log, Rogues and scholars, concerning the dismissal of Ward Churchill, a professor there. In his post he made the following [...]</p>
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		<title>By: thenewg</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5507</link>
		<dc:creator>thenewg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5507</guid>
		<description>Why, thankyou;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why, thankyou;)</p>
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		<title>By: NCCU &#171; Plantation Life</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5506</link>
		<dc:creator>NCCU &#171; Plantation Life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5506</guid>
		<description>[...] reading about the dismissal of Professor Ward Churchill, I have some things regarding academia and being a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reading about the dismissal of Professor Ward Churchill, I have some things regarding academia and being a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael "Ubertramp" Pecaut</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5508</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael "Ubertramp" Pecaut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5508</guid>
		<description>Sorta.  Radiobiology.  There were certainly a lot of physicists at the meeting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorta.  Radiobiology.  There were certainly a lot of physicists at the meeting.</p>
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		<title>By: thenewg</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5505</link>
		<dc:creator>thenewg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 15:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5505</guid>
		<description>#6: Michael: Is the research area Physics?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#6: Michael: Is the research area Physics?</p>
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		<title>By: thenewg</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5510</link>
		<dc:creator>thenewg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 15:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5510</guid>
		<description>&quot;I</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5509</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 15:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5509</guid>
		<description>I agree completely. I hate that we ever talk about race or feel that we have to. As long as it&#039;s a topic of conversation, we&#039;ll know we haven&#039;t arrived yet.

For the moment, though, I know that it&#039;s a real concern for people. Black colleagues here I think feel a certain isolation, and what I described in the story about the faculty search process, that was VERY real.

I&#039;d encourage more people of whatever race to give it a chance (if they can afford it). It&#039;s a wonderful place in most respects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree completely. I hate that we ever talk about race or feel that we have to. As long as it&#8217;s a topic of conversation, we&#8217;ll know we haven&#8217;t arrived yet.</p>
<p>For the moment, though, I know that it&#8217;s a real concern for people. Black colleagues here I think feel a certain isolation, and what I described in the story about the faculty search process, that was VERY real.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d encourage more people of whatever race to give it a chance (if they can afford it). It&#8217;s a wonderful place in most respects.</p>
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		<title>By: thenewg</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5512</link>
		<dc:creator>thenewg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 15:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5512</guid>
		<description>By the way Sam, what you&#039;re saying is bothering me. And I do have &quot;any kind of moral certainty in my head or an acceptable policy in my heart&quot;. I went to Salt Lake City to visit a white Mormon, which was mostly white as well. It went well. I don&#039;t know if it is as simple as saying &#039;there&#039;s no black people there&#039; as justification for not going. Lynching, racism, cross burning, maybe. But WE (black and white) are not using some fertile common ground we do have.

I want to talk about something other than white or black, like humanity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way Sam, what you&#8217;re saying is bothering me. And I do have &#8220;any kind of moral certainty in my head or an acceptable policy in my heart&#8221;. I went to Salt Lake City to visit a white Mormon, which was mostly white as well. It went well. I don&#8217;t know if it is as simple as saying &#8216;there&#8217;s no black people there&#8217; as justification for not going. Lynching, racism, cross burning, maybe. But WE (black and white) are not using some fertile common ground we do have.</p>
<p>I want to talk about something other than white or black, like humanity.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5513</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 15:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5513</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s just that there aren&#039;t any minorities here. Boulder is VERY white, and that&#039;s driven by the fact that it&#039;s expensive as hell. I wouldn&#039;t argue that it&#039;s racist - on the whole, people here are pretty progressive minded - but if you&#039;re a minority you just have to accept that you&#039;re the only one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s just that there aren&#8217;t any minorities here. Boulder is VERY white, and that&#8217;s driven by the fact that it&#8217;s expensive as hell. I wouldn&#8217;t argue that it&#8217;s racist &#8211; on the whole, people here are pretty progressive minded &#8211; but if you&#8217;re a minority you just have to accept that you&#8217;re the only one.</p>
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		<title>By: thenewg</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5511</link>
		<dc:creator>thenewg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5511</guid>
		<description>#10, Sam: Why would you say that Sam? Is it racist, or is it just a lack of black amenities?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#10, Sam: Why would you say that Sam? Is it racist, or is it just a lack of black amenities?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5504</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5504</guid>
		<description>I think people look at it this way. Maybe there&#039;s an informal formula we work through where we assign probabilities based on these kinds of factors, and as much as I love Boulder, I have to be honest - I wouldn&#039;t move here if I were black (or any minority, for that matter).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think people look at it this way. Maybe there&#8217;s an informal formula we work through where we assign probabilities based on these kinds of factors, and as much as I love Boulder, I have to be honest &#8211; I wouldn&#8217;t move here if I were black (or any minority, for that matter).</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5503</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5503</guid>
		<description>I like your thoughts, clear and concise. being black but not from the U.S. and not growing up with racism, I have the same impression that in the U.S. people make choices according to how they have been historically treated. With the all the common pressures and stresses of ordinary life, why add one more where you MAY not be welcome?

http://cyberlog.wordpress.com
http://chancellorbeverlyjones.wordpress.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your thoughts, clear and concise. being black but not from the U.S. and not growing up with racism, I have the same impression that in the U.S. people make choices according to how they have been historically treated. With the all the common pressures and stresses of ordinary life, why add one more where you MAY not be welcome?</p>
<p><a href="http://cyberlog.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://cyberlog.wordpress.com</a><br />
<a href="http://chancellorbeverlyjones.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://chancellorbeverlyjones.wordpress.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: ThatPoliticalBlog</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5502</link>
		<dc:creator>ThatPoliticalBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5502</guid>
		<description>[...] racial diversity. Here is an interesting take on it by Sam Smith at the Scholars and Rogues blog. Scholars and Rogues A few years back, while a Ph.D. student at CU, I was invited to serve as a member of a faculty [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] racial diversity. Here is an interesting take on it by Sam Smith at the Scholars and Rogues blog. Scholars and Rogues A few years back, while a Ph.D. student at CU, I was invited to serve as a member of a faculty [...]</p>
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		<title>By: threebells</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5501</link>
		<dc:creator>threebells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5501</guid>
		<description>According to Native Americans with whom I spoke several years ago, Ward Churchill represents their interests about as much as a cigar-store Indian!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to Native Americans with whom I spoke several years ago, Ward Churchill represents their interests about as much as a cigar-store Indian!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael "Ubertramp" Pecaut</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5499</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael "Ubertramp" Pecaut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5499</guid>
		<description>We actually have some similar issues at my university.  There are seven principle investigators in my lab.  All but one is white.  I think this is more a funciton of my field of study rather than the institution itself, though (I just returned from a meeting where about 90% of the people there were old white males).

But the odd thing is, we are rarely approached by white students for research opportunities.  All of our techs are minorities.  And all of our students are minorities.  In fact, most of our students are not American.  I get 4-5 e-mails a month from PhD candidates or techs from India or China who want to come here to do research.

Granted, that&#039;s a-whole-nother can o&#039; worms (to be debated at a later time), but my point is that the academic world is undergoing significant changes.  And if race WAS an issue with hiring Churchill, it&#039;ll be come less of a problem in years to come.

Theoretically.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We actually have some similar issues at my university.  There are seven principle investigators in my lab.  All but one is white.  I think this is more a funciton of my field of study rather than the institution itself, though (I just returned from a meeting where about 90% of the people there were old white males).</p>
<p>But the odd thing is, we are rarely approached by white students for research opportunities.  All of our techs are minorities.  And all of our students are minorities.  In fact, most of our students are not American.  I get 4-5 e-mails a month from PhD candidates or techs from India or China who want to come here to do research.</p>
<p>Granted, that&#8217;s a-whole-nother can o&#8217; worms (to be debated at a later time), but my point is that the academic world is undergoing significant changes.  And if race WAS an issue with hiring Churchill, it&#8217;ll be come less of a problem in years to come.</p>
<p>Theoretically.  <img src='http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jim Booth</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5500</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Booth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5500</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been on both sides of this issue, Sam. I got turfed for a job I really wanted in favor of a candidate who was, and I&#039;m NOT making this up - an African American nun who was disabled - as the dept. chair told me  off the record (this happened 13-15 years ago) - &quot;She met 3 diversity criteria for our school - what else can I do?&quot; I tried to be understanding, but boy howdy was it tough when I needed a job....

Having also served on search committees at schools and tried to find capable minority candidates (something academia actually does, to its credit), I think about highly qualified candidates that I&#039;ve helped turf in trying to diversify a university&#039;s faculty. And I share your ambivalence - and your sense of what we would like to see versus what we do see - and your uneasiness about the process. It feels like it&#039;s not fair to anyone - either to minority candidates tacitly asked to give up their culture for academic life and to sincere, well qualified candidates who end up losing out on posts simply because they&#039;re not minorities....

And, like you, I have no useful solutions to this dilemma....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been on both sides of this issue, Sam. I got turfed for a job I really wanted in favor of a candidate who was, and I&#8217;m NOT making this up &#8211; an African American nun who was disabled &#8211; as the dept. chair told me  off the record (this happened 13-15 years ago) &#8211; &#8220;She met 3 diversity criteria for our school &#8211; what else can I do?&#8221; I tried to be understanding, but boy howdy was it tough when I needed a job&#8230;.</p>
<p>Having also served on search committees at schools and tried to find capable minority candidates (something academia actually does, to its credit), I think about highly qualified candidates that I&#8217;ve helped turf in trying to diversify a university&#8217;s faculty. And I share your ambivalence &#8211; and your sense of what we would like to see versus what we do see &#8211; and your uneasiness about the process. It feels like it&#8217;s not fair to anyone &#8211; either to minority candidates tacitly asked to give up their culture for academic life and to sincere, well qualified candidates who end up losing out on posts simply because they&#8217;re not minorities&#8230;.</p>
<p>And, like you, I have no useful solutions to this dilemma&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Denny Wilkins</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5498</link>
		<dc:creator>Denny Wilkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5498</guid>
		<description>As your doctoral colleague at CU, I can only add &quot;amen.&quot;

As a prof at a university that&#039;s whiter than CU, I can say &quot;Damn. Do I understand that dynamic.&quot;

Thanks, Sam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As your doctoral colleague at CU, I can only add &#8220;amen.&#8221;</p>
<p>As a prof at a university that&#8217;s whiter than CU, I can say &#8220;Damn. Do I understand that dynamic.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks, Sam.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5497</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5497</guid>
		<description>I always expect to get torched when I open my mouth on this subject because my take doesn&#039;t slot neatly with &quot;either&quot; &quot;side.&quot; But I was there, I saw what I saw, and the bottom line is that Boulder has a problem here - Churchill is merely a symptom of a larger disease.

The thing that hurts the worst is that when you suggest that the dynamics result in certain groups getting an easy pass, it can&#039;t help but damage how others in that group are viewed. And I want to be REALLY clear on this - I was privileged to know and work with some minority faculty at CU, and I was impressed by each of them. This is a situation that encourages us to think in tokenism terms, and I&#039;m glad to say that none of my personal experiences supported the idea that the minority faculty who ARE there are substandard in any way.

This leads me to hope fervently that Churchill was a rare exception, although I&#039;m convinced that the pressures I describe here are quite real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always expect to get torched when I open my mouth on this subject because my take doesn&#8217;t slot neatly with &#8220;either&#8221; &#8220;side.&#8221; But I was there, I saw what I saw, and the bottom line is that Boulder has a problem here &#8211; Churchill is merely a symptom of a larger disease.</p>
<p>The thing that hurts the worst is that when you suggest that the dynamics result in certain groups getting an easy pass, it can&#8217;t help but damage how others in that group are viewed. And I want to be REALLY clear on this &#8211; I was privileged to know and work with some minority faculty at CU, and I was impressed by each of them. This is a situation that encourages us to think in tokenism terms, and I&#8217;m glad to say that none of my personal experiences supported the idea that the minority faculty who ARE there are substandard in any way.</p>
<p>This leads me to hope fervently that Churchill was a rare exception, although I&#8217;m convinced that the pressures I describe here are quite real.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ Wellen</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/07/25/cu-and-the-churchill-affair-how-did-this-happen-in-the-first-place/comment-page-1/#comment-5496</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Wellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=733#comment-5496</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the inside look at the Churchill contretemps. Talk about your unflinching honesty.

Regarding President Brown&#039;s statement -- throwing figures around the way he did was beyond crass. In other words, there&#039;s no Indian who&#039;s worth almost a billion dollars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the inside look at the Churchill contretemps. Talk about your unflinching honesty.</p>
<p>Regarding President Brown&#8217;s statement &#8212; throwing figures around the way he did was beyond crass. In other words, there&#8217;s no Indian who&#8217;s worth almost a billion dollars.</p>
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