Comments on: Verse Day: an ode to banality and the poetry of consensus http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/ Think. It ain't illegal yet... Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:13:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Dan Vera http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-10345 Dan Vera Sun, 23 Dec 2007 01:06:47 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/#comment-10345 Well, I think there's always been plenty of crappy poetry. Always. I can't say there's more now then before. No one reads the crappy stuff that was published a hundred years ago and those books weren't kept (probably used for kindling during the hard times). But I take your point on the Hartwig. I'm not familiar with her work. I do think there's a lot of good work being written out there. There are alot of nice little presses around and more starting (check out vrzhu.com for example). I just can't muster the energy for another "poetry is dead" or a "woe is poetry" conversation. It keeps me away from the good work being done by poets almost every where. I don't come from an MFA background, though I have heard plenty of MFA folks talk of the horrors of the workshops you mentioned. It's nice to remember that this is a relatively new thing. I was recently reading a book of essays by Galway Kinnell and the whole workshop thing is a post war (2) thing. So, it may disappear. Anyway, thanks for posting your own work. You should publish more of it. Well, I think there’s always been plenty of crappy poetry. Always. I can’t say there’s more now then before. No one reads the crappy stuff that was published a hundred years ago and those books weren’t kept (probably used for kindling during the hard times).
But I take your point on the Hartwig. I’m not familiar with her work.
I do think there’s a lot of good work being written out there. There are alot of nice little presses around and more starting (check out vrzhu.com for example).
I just can’t muster the energy for another “poetry is dead” or a “woe is poetry” conversation. It keeps me away from the good work being done by poets almost every where. I don’t come from an MFA background, though I have heard plenty of MFA folks talk of the horrors of the workshops you mentioned. It’s nice to remember that this is a relatively new thing. I was recently reading a book of essays by Galway Kinnell and the whole workshop thing is a post war (2) thing. So, it may disappear.
Anyway, thanks for posting your own work. You should publish more of it.

]]> By: Scholars and Rogues » Blog Archive http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-10240 Scholars and Rogues » Blog Archive Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:06:18 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/#comment-10240 [...] Dr. Slammy under art, literature, poetry [ Comments: none ] Not long ago I was bitching about how utterly banal I think a lot of contemporary poetry is. Shortly thereafter I got a note from scrogue JS O’Brien saying he thought I might appreciate [...] [...] Dr. Slammy under art, literature, poetry [ Comments: none ] Not long ago I was bitching about how utterly banal I think a lot of contemporary poetry is. Shortly thereafter I got a note from scrogue JS O’Brien saying he thought I might appreciate [...]

]]> By: Jim Booth http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-8711 Jim Booth Sat, 24 Nov 2007 22:09:37 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/#comment-8711 Sam wrote: "...if everybody's poetry is equally valid, then there's no such thing as greatness...." Tis true, 'tis pity, 'tis pity 'tis true... Fishbone - If poetry is left to be validated by readers, then readers are invalidating most contemporary poetry. It's boring as hell is why. Of course, I only write novels, so.... Hartwig is equally banal in her native Polish, I suspect - or she should be hunting for that translator with a law suit.... The main problem with all creative writing program writing is exactly what Sam has complained about here. Talent gets squelched in the name of acceptance and fostering group harmony - which only creates group think and an atmosphere that discourages rather than encourages creativity - as I note here: http://www.storysouth.com/spring2004/literaryminutiae.html Sam wrote: No, good poetry needs to sound like it was written by somebody who lives in the age he or she is writing in and about." Dammit, Sam, I told you Wordsworth had a point nearly 30 years ago - of course you were only six.... ;-) Sam wrote: “…if everybody’s poetry is equally valid, then there’s no such thing as greatness….”

Tis true, ’tis pity, ’tis pity ’tis true…

Fishbone – If poetry is left to be validated by readers, then readers are invalidating most contemporary poetry. It’s boring as hell is why. Of course, I only write novels, so…. Hartwig is equally banal in her native Polish, I suspect – or she should be hunting for that translator with a law suit….

The main problem with all creative writing program writing is exactly what Sam has complained about here. Talent gets squelched in the name of acceptance and fostering group harmony – which only creates group think and an atmosphere that discourages rather than encourages creativity – as I note here:

http://www.storysouth.com/spring2004/literaryminutiae.html

Sam wrote: No, good poetry needs to sound like it was written by somebody who lives in the age he or she is writing in and about.”

Dammit, Sam, I told you Wordsworth had a point nearly 30 years ago – of course you were only six…. ;-)

]]> By: Dr. Slammy http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-8673 Dr. Slammy Sat, 24 Nov 2007 04:52:34 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/#comment-8673 I'll leave your first assertion alone, as we could round and round on that for days. While I agree that the reader matters, we'd have to be fools to think that all readers are equally capable. On that last part, yes, it's a translation. And translations are a little different. Granted. However, one of the rules of poetry translation is that the resulting piece should reflect the artistry of the original. I’ll leave your first assertion alone, as we could round and round on that for days. While I agree that the reader matters, we’d have to be fools to think that all readers are equally capable.

On that last part, yes, it’s a translation. And translations are a little different. Granted. However, one of the rules of poetry translation is that the resulting piece should reflect the artistry of the original.

]]> By: fishbone http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-8671 fishbone Sat, 24 Nov 2007 04:32:23 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/#comment-8671 [quote] If everybody’s poetry is equally valid, then there’s no longer such a thing as greatness. [/quote] Poetry should be left to the reader to be validated, who else should decide greatness? Also, Julia Hartwig's work is translated from Polish. [quote] If everybody’s poetry is equally valid, then there’s no longer such a thing as greatness. [/quote]

Poetry should be left to the reader to be validated, who else should decide greatness?

Also, Julia Hartwig’s work is translated from Polish.

]]> By: Dr. Slammy http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-8668 Dr. Slammy Sat, 24 Nov 2007 03:38:33 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/#comment-8668 I like to think that there would be more readers and listeners if the poetry were more interesting. But maybe I'm dreaming about that, too. I like to think that there would be more readers and listeners if the poetry were more interesting. But maybe I’m dreaming about that, too.

]]> By: Russ Wellen http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-8667 Russ Wellen Sat, 24 Nov 2007 03:35:15 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/#comment-8667 Your poem is really raucous and exciting, Sam. <blockquote>I hate to pick on Hartwig,</blockquote> Go ahead -- pick on her. The trick you pulled on her was funny. But whether in prose or poem form, she s**ks. I used to be a frequenter of a highly regarded open-mike night. The biggest problem with poetry today, I realized, is there are more poets than there are readers or listeners. Your poem is really raucous and exciting, Sam.

I hate to pick on Hartwig,

Go ahead — pick on her. The trick you pulled on her was funny. But whether in prose or poem form, she s**ks.

I used to be a frequenter of a highly regarded open-mike night. The biggest problem with poetry today, I realized, is there are more poets than there are readers or listeners.

]]> By: Brian Angliss http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/comment-page-1/#comment-8638 Brian Angliss Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:03:55 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/11/23/verse-day-an-ode-to-banality-and-the-poetry-of-consensus/#comment-8638 That Hartwig piece.... You know, if you want to write a <em>story</em>, write a bloody story. But don't pretend it's a poem by chopping the sentences up here and there. My worst poems have been like this. My "best" poems (still mostly crap, IMHO - I'm more into stories than poetry) have been about ideas, not plot, character, setting, etc. Not saying you can't do plot et al in a poem, but that it's usually subsumed to the <em>idea</em> that the poem's about. Of course, seeing as I don't claim to be a poet, feel free to take what I just said with a grain or two of salt. That Hartwig piece…. You know, if you want to write a story, write a bloody story. But don’t pretend it’s a poem by chopping the sentences up here and there. My worst poems have been like this. My “best” poems (still mostly crap, IMHO – I’m more into stories than poetry) have been about ideas, not plot, character, setting, etc. Not saying you can’t do plot et al in a poem, but that it’s usually subsumed to the idea that the poem’s about.

Of course, seeing as I don’t claim to be a poet, feel free to take what I just said with a grain or two of salt.

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