Comments on: Dr. Slammy in 2008: Teacher compensation – you get what you pay for

By: Brian Angliss

Brian Angliss — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:47:32 +0000

Denver Public Schools went to a pay-for-performance plan recently, and it's attracted a larger number of teachers to DPS than in the past. We'll see how it turns out.

By: Dr. Slammy

Dr. Slammy — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:21:38 +0000

Doug:

You’re 100% correct – compensation has to reward excellence, not showing up.

The tricky issue in the short term, though, is that a big part of the success of my plan depends on attracting a better pool of applicants all around. Unfortunately, you can’t implement excellence-only measures at the recruiting level on day 1. So there is necessarily an interim step where you’d drive salaries up across the board. This would reward bad teachers, yes, but it would also attract better and incent the good ones in the system already not to leave – and this part is crucial. We’re seeing an unacceptable level of flight from the profession, and your first task always has to be about keeping what works on board.

I’d hope that the pay-for-performance structure could begin taking shape within the space of three or four years, depending on how effectively we could leverage the experience of organizations already working on the problem, like yours, and how hard other entities would fight us on it. Suffice it to say, this kind fo system would require a significant re-thinking on the part of organizations like teacher’s unions.

By: Doug Hering

Doug Hering — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:43:03 +0000

Raising teacher compensation would be an easier issue for many people if the increase in compensaton were based (somewhat like the corporate world) on individual performance. The argument about equivalent degrees and work hours is interesting, but the fact is that in the broad market, people are paid for the value they add to an organization rather than what degrees they have. I’ve posted a brief summary of what we’ve implemented at The Classical Academy to distinguish pay between good teachers and excellent teachers.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:00:28 +0000

Russ Wellen – When I was in high school, also in an upper-middle-class suburb, I looked down on the teachers. I thought they were losers who couldnâ€™t get better jobs. And most of them taught (if you call that teaching) that way. Education was lost on me (barely got out of high school; flunked out of college).
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Well, when I was in high school (1977-81), we started losing all the good teachers a couple at a time to the private sector. Times were tough in the 70′s, and you had to take what you could get as far as jobs were concerned.

By: DomPierre

DomPierre — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:43:45 +0000

As I've said before, teachers or students, there's a bigger problem as to what happens when students graduate and cannot find work, which seems to be in any field today. The Lies at the End of the American Dream By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS " . . . . Teitelbaum recommends that American students considering majors in science and engineering first investigate the career prospects of recent graduates. . . . Beyond compensation, there's a broader problem about teaching methods, what's being taught, and how to make future taxpayers out students.

By: Russ Wellen

Russ Wellen — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 18:50:59 +0000

Maybe a better way of putting it is. . . bring all teachers close to the salary levels of those in the high-paying districts.

Like where I live, in the suburbs of New York City. Teachers do really well here. And, in most cases, deservedly.

When I was in high school, also in an upper-middle-class suburb, I looked down on the teachers. I thought they were losers who couldn’t get better jobs. And most of them taught (if you call that teaching) that way. Education was lost on me (barely got out of high school; flunked out of college).

Imagine my surprise when my son entered the school system of a town near the one in which I grew up and I found most of his teachers dedicated, caring and energetic. My cynicism about education took a major beating.

By: Dr. Slammy

Dr. Slammy — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 18:29:24 +0000

Jen: see my organization/admin post from yesterday.

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:57:49 +0000

Raising salaries to be competitive is a good first step. The next step would be to find a way to remove the bureaucratic impediments that get in the way of actual teaching. That’s huge factor in why I left my teaching job–too many forms and checkboxes, not enough teaching.