Comments on: Some meandering thoughts on the myth of the “Christian nation” http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/ Think. It ain't illegal yet... Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:13:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: When Jesus Attacks! Why don’t we care that the Catholic Church is officially whipping Congress? | Scholars and Rogues http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-95329 When Jesus Attacks! Why don’t we care that the Catholic Church is officially whipping Congress? | Scholars and Rogues Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:56:48 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-95329 [...] racial majority. But Christian culture and Christian government aren’t the same thing, and the United States is most emphatically not a Christian state. Not yet, [...] [...] racial majority. But Christian culture and Christian government aren’t the same thing, and the United States is most emphatically not a Christian state. Not yet, [...]

]]> By: Tim Tebow and the problem with "faith" | Scholars and Rogues http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-95328 Tim Tebow and the problem with "faith" | Scholars and Rogues Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:56:15 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-95328 [...] we turn here in this most evangelical of cultures, we hear that word. Faith. We revere those who “have great faith,” even [...] [...] we turn here in this most evangelical of cultures, we hear that word. Faith. We revere those who “have great faith,” even [...]

]]> By: When Jesus Attacks! Why don’t we care that the Catholic Church is officially whipping Congress? « Lullaby Pit http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-77892 When Jesus Attacks! Why don’t we care that the Catholic Church is officially whipping Congress? « Lullaby Pit Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:56:28 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-77892 [...] racial majority. But Christian culture and Christian government aren’t the same thing, and the United States is most emphatically not a Christian state. Not yet, [...] [...] racial majority. But Christian culture and Christian government aren’t the same thing, and the United States is most emphatically not a Christian state. Not yet, [...]

]]> By: Phil Russell http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10223 Phil Russell Fri, 21 Dec 2007 04:47:10 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10223 Thanks Slammy...you have restored my faith in humanity... Merry Christmas to you to, IF I'm allowed to say that here, of course... ;-) Thanks Slammy…you have restored my faith in humanity…

Merry Christmas to you to, IF I’m allowed to say that here, of course… ;-)

]]> By: Dr. Slammy http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10220 Dr. Slammy Fri, 21 Dec 2007 02:24:48 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10220 Work, the holidays, other posts - nothing personal, just bandwidth considerations... :) Work, the holidays, other posts – nothing personal, just bandwidth considerations… :)

]]> By: Phil Russell http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10219 Phil Russell Fri, 21 Dec 2007 02:22:57 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10219 Where did everybody go? I don't want to have the last word here...was it something I said? Where did everybody go? I don’t want to have the last word here…was it something I said?

]]> By: Phil Russell http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10094 Phil Russell Tue, 18 Dec 2007 02:31:58 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10094 Here's my science-religion post...critique at will... http://cyberlog.wordpress.com/2007/12/17/science-and-religion-the-particle-and-the-wave/ Here’s my science-religion post…critique at will…

http://cyberlog.wordpress.com/2007/12/17/science-and-religion-the-particle-and-the-wave/

]]> By: Phil Russell http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10091 Phil Russell Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:16:49 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10091 Sounds interesting...I got a science religion debate coming up. And there is some Q.M. in it too elaine... Sounds interesting…I got a science religion debate coming up. And there is some Q.M. in it too elaine…

]]> By: Dr. Slammy http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10067 Dr. Slammy Mon, 17 Dec 2007 00:49:27 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10067 Here's the best source I've seen - I drew heavily on it in my dissertation research. It's not all about the Millennarians, but it deals with them in a lot of detail. Noble, David F. <i>The Religion of Technology: The Divinity of Man and the Spirit of Invention.</i> New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1998. Here’s the best source I’ve seen – I drew heavily on it in my dissertation research. It’s not all about the Millennarians, but it deals with them in a lot of detail.

Noble, David F. The Religion of Technology: The Divinity of Man and the Spirit of Invention. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1998.

]]> By: TeachingAsst-L http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10065 TeachingAsst-L Mon, 17 Dec 2007 00:01:28 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10065 Got any links to info about them? I've never heard of them. Got any links to info about them? I’ve never heard of them.

]]> By: Dr. Slammy http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10039 Dr. Slammy Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:31:26 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10039 The church has never been unitary, as much as its leadership would like it to be. For a good look at what drove much of this, have a look at the Millennarian theologists. The church has never been unitary, as much as its leadership would like it to be. For a good look at what drove much of this, have a look at the Millennarian theologists.

]]> By: TeachingAsst-L http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10032 TeachingAsst-L Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:03:03 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10032 Maybe the church was more progressive than I thought. I mean, they did get rid of those darn midwives and wise women...er witches...allowing modern medicine to evolve. And of course there's the <a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/index-of-prohibited-books" rel="nofollow">Index Librorum Prohibitorum</a>, basically a list of books banned by the church. Maybe the church was more progressive than I thought. I mean, they did get rid of those darn midwives and wise women…er witches…allowing modern medicine to evolve. And of course there’s the Index Librorum Prohibitorum, basically a list of books banned by the church.

]]> By: Phil Russell http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10027 Phil Russell Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:18:58 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10027 Martin, I'm glad your a Jew AND control the media, because I need some airtime... It's about a shocking and brutal injustice that I care very little about... Martin, I’m glad your a Jew AND control the media, because I need some airtime…

It’s about a shocking and brutal injustice that I care very little about…

]]> By: Phil Russell http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10026 Phil Russell Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:16:56 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10026 Sorry, I have to add a bit of color to the conversation... Did not the constitution NOT include black people as human beings? How enlightended could these people have been? Didn't Jefferson own slaves? I thought a black person was easier to see (or believe in) than an invisible Jesus? I do know a little about Q.M., so ask away... Sorry, I have to add a bit of color to the conversation…

Did not the constitution NOT include black people as human beings? How enlightended could these people have been? Didn’t Jefferson own slaves? I thought a black person was easier to see (or believe in) than an invisible Jesus?

I do know a little about Q.M., so ask away…

]]> By: Dr. Slammy http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10025 Dr. Slammy Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:13:54 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10025 This is a long argument, but let me boil a couple points down. First, there has always been the smackdown element in the church, but there's also a strong "heretical" strain. This tension has actually been central to what Christianity is today. One strain has been more about control, but the progressive, technotopian strain has been strong enough to drive significant tech development. Also, when I talk about historical, you have to note that things change a bit in the 19th Century. Prior to that religion wasn't as "anti-science" as we think of it being today. This is a long argument, but let me boil a couple points down. First, there has always been the smackdown element in the church, but there’s also a strong “heretical” strain. This tension has actually been central to what Christianity is today. One strain has been more about control, but the progressive, technotopian strain has been strong enough to drive significant tech development.

Also, when I talk about historical, you have to note that things change a bit in the 19th Century. Prior to that religion wasn’t as “anti-science” as we think of it being today.

]]> By: TeachingAsst-L http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10024 TeachingAsst-L Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:06:30 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10024 <blockquote>Historically speaking it was the Christians who drove so much of our technological innovation. </blockquote> Hmm...I think people like Galileo would disagree with you. And in "modern" times the church has often been the one holding us back: evolution, birth control, stem cell research, etc.

Historically speaking it was the Christians who drove so much of our technological innovation.

Hmm…I think people like Galileo would disagree with you. And in “modern” times the church has often been the one holding us back: evolution, birth control, stem cell research, etc.

]]> By: Elaine http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-10010 Elaine Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:42:39 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-10010 I would love to see a post tackling God and Quantum Mechanics... DP: My Joke is posted elsewhere... :) I would love to see a post tackling God and Quantum Mechanics…

DP:

My Joke is posted elsewhere… :)

]]> By: Ann http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-9954 Ann Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:17:26 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-9954 At the risk of sounding sycophantic, I agree. :-) People tend to point to deism, pantheism, and even religious tolerance as evidence of the continuing importance of religion to Enlightenment thinkers; but a shift in world view, no matter how widespread or profound, doesn't arise in a vacuum. Religion ruled civilization for thousands of years. It was a vast force to be reckoned with, and those reckoners were human, with the human ability to entertain contradictory beliefs and the human need for meaning in life. <i>Dealing</i> with those issues in a myriad of ways didn't prevent or subvert the Enlightenment. One obvious example: Jefferson was personally reluctant to abandon the idea of some kind of supernatural existence, yet he absolutely refuted the right of any religious system to impose its will on the people. "God schmod," as Rousseau used to say. Or so I hear. At the risk of sounding sycophantic, I agree. :-)

People tend to point to deism, pantheism, and even religious tolerance as evidence of the continuing importance of religion to Enlightenment thinkers; but a shift in world view, no matter how widespread or profound, doesn’t arise in a vacuum. Religion ruled civilization for thousands of years. It was a vast force to be reckoned with, and those reckoners were human, with the human ability to entertain contradictory beliefs and the human need for meaning in life.

Dealing with those issues in a myriad of ways didn’t prevent or subvert the Enlightenment. One obvious example: Jefferson was personally reluctant to abandon the idea of some kind of supernatural existence, yet he absolutely refuted the right of any religious system to impose its will on the people.

“God schmod,” as Rousseau used to say. Or so I hear.

]]> By: JS O'Brien http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-9947 JS O'Brien Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:27:38 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-9947 At the risk of addressing the original entry ;-), I'd just like to say that the idea that the Age of Enlightenment was religious, at least among the educated class, is greatly overstated. Heck, even British ships and Army regiments usually had no chaplain, and were often considered bad luck! As for democracy drawing on Christianity, can anyone kindly point out the place in the Bible that plugs democracy? OK, that even mentions democracy? Thank you. At the risk of addressing the original entry ;-) , I’d just like to say that the idea that the Age of Enlightenment was religious, at least among the educated class, is greatly overstated. Heck, even British ships and Army regiments usually had no chaplain, and were often considered bad luck!

As for democracy drawing on Christianity, can anyone kindly point out the place in the Bible that plugs democracy? OK, that even mentions democracy?

Thank you.

]]> By: Rho http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-9946 Rho Thu, 13 Dec 2007 01:07:15 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2007/12/12/some-meandering-thoughts-on-the-myth-of-the-christian-nation/#comment-9946 Sam, I've known you for over ten years and that leaves me with just one question about your last statement..... WHAT DIGNITY?!? Sam,
I’ve known you for over ten years and that leaves me with just one question about your last statement….. WHAT DIGNITY?!?

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