Comments on: John and Elizabeth Edwards agree: Getting us out of Iraq can end the recession http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/ Think. It ain't illegal yet... Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:58:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: jeff http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-19791 jeff Sat, 01 Mar 2008 05:28:12 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-19791 Y'all , I must offer my humblest apologies for being so snarky and bombastic. These emotions are inversely proportional to my wife;s failing health. Please don't take it personal, as I have no intent in hurting anyone's feelings over here. Jeff Y’all , I must offer my humblest apologies for being so snarky and bombastic. These emotions are inversely proportional to my wife;s failing health. Please don’t take it personal, as I have no intent in hurting anyone’s feelings over here.

Jeff

]]> By: jeff http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-19749 jeff Sat, 01 Mar 2008 00:17:50 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-19749 Dr.Slammy, Stiglitz's views might be credible, had he been focusing on microeconomics(but I don't even agree with his economic theories), but this is way out of his area of expertise. Just because he's a Nobel Lauerate doesn't mean much, considering the fact that people like Arafat won the big prize also. I never have gone on record saying that only conservatives are credibles I've said many times before, most of my news sources(non market related) come solidly from the left . Although I'm to the right of most of the participants in this forum, I'm actually a moderate. Speaking of credibility, do you find Fox News to be credible? I generally doubt all sources, and find an agenda on all sides. That's why I prefer to quantify thiings with hard numbers, and the numbers bandied about regarding this war just don't add up....from any side. Jeff Dr.Slammy,
Stiglitz’s views might be credible, had he been focusing on microeconomics(but I don’t even agree with his economic theories), but this is way out of his area of expertise. Just because he’s a Nobel Lauerate doesn’t mean much, considering the fact that people like Arafat won the big prize also.

I never have gone on record saying that only conservatives are credibles I’ve said many times before, most of my news sources(non market related) come solidly from the left .

Although I’m to the right of most of the participants in this forum, I’m actually a moderate.

Speaking of credibility, do you find Fox News to be credible?

I generally doubt all sources, and find an agenda on all sides. That’s why I prefer to quantify thiings with hard numbers, and the numbers bandied about regarding this war just don’t add up….from any side.

Jeff

]]> By: Dr. Slammy http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-19741 Dr. Slammy Fri, 29 Feb 2008 23:46:23 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-19741 Jeff: Wait, so someone whose views are often to one side of the political spectrum or the other is no longer a credible source? Given that, can you name ANYONE who's credible? I mean, you're predictably to the right, which either means that you aren't credible or that only conservatives are credible. And I know you don't mean any of that, right? Jeff: Wait, so someone whose views are often to one side of the political spectrum or the other is no longer a credible source? Given that, can you name ANYONE who’s credible? I mean, you’re predictably to the right, which either means that you aren’t credible or that only conservatives are credible.

And I know you don’t mean any of that, right?

]]> By: jeff http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-19732 jeff Fri, 29 Feb 2008 23:12:36 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-19732 Dave, What credible source can you cite? Stiglitz is well known for his partisan leftist views, kind of like a Paul Krugman. How do the oil companies benefit from the war? The oil companies are making money from high oil prices, yet their margins are stable. Anyways, what's wrong with making money? If you own shares in a mutual fund or have an index fund in your 401K, the odds dictate that you are a part owner of those very companies. Where is this second set of books? If there were a second set of books, wouldn't the Democrat controlled congress, via the Appropriations Committee, expose this set of books to the public to embarrass Bush? Jeff Dave,

What credible source can you cite? Stiglitz is well known for his partisan leftist views, kind of like a Paul Krugman. How do the oil companies benefit from the war? The oil companies are making money from high oil prices, yet their margins are stable. Anyways, what’s wrong with making money? If you own shares in a mutual fund or have an index fund in your 401K, the odds dictate that you are a part owner of those very companies.

Where is this second set of books? If there were a second set of books, wouldn’t the Democrat controlled congress, via the Appropriations Committee, expose this set of books to the public to embarrass Bush?

Jeff

]]> By: The Reality Based Dave http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-19684 The Reality Based Dave Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:31:03 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-19684 Jeff- There are only two groups benefitting from the wars: Military industry & oil companies. Don't believe me? For a start, try looking here: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/29/exclusive_the_three_trillion_dollar_war "...Nobel laureate and former chief World Bank economist, Joseph Stiglitz, and co-author Linda Bilmes of Harvard University say the Bush administration has repeatedly low-balled the cost of the war—and even kept a second set of records hidden from the American public." Jeff-
There are only two groups benefitting from the wars: Military industry & oil companies. Don’t believe me? For a start, try looking here:
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/29/exclusive_the_three_trillion_dollar_war

“…Nobel laureate and former chief World Bank economist, Joseph Stiglitz, and co-author Linda Bilmes of Harvard University say the Bush administration has repeatedly low-balled the cost of the war—and even kept a second set of records hidden from the American public.”

]]> By: jeff http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-19177 jeff Thu, 28 Feb 2008 00:16:44 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-19177 Barbara: Have you quantified the "Corruption and greed of the Military/Industrial complex?" That would be an interesting exercise. Jeff Barbara:

Have you quantified the “Corruption and greed of the Military/Industrial complex?” That would be an interesting exercise.

Jeff

]]> By: Brian Angliss http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-19107 Brian Angliss Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:46:43 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-19107 <em>483 U.S. Military Fatalities in Afghanistan</em> And this is a reason to get out of <em>Iraq</em> how, exactly? ;) 483 U.S. Military Fatalities in Afghanistan

And this is a reason to get out of Iraq how, exactly? ;)

]]> By: Barbara Flynn http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-19089 Barbara Flynn Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:24:46 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-19089 Hello, People...this is the main reason we should be out of Iraq... Bush Lied, Soldiers Keep Dying. 3,972 U.S. Military Fatalities in Iraq 483 U.S. Military Fatalities in Afghanistan 29,203 U.S. Military Maimed in Iraq (source: DoD Update as of February 20, 2008) 88,991 Iraqis Reported Killed (source: Iraq Body Count) 1,173,743 Iraqis Reported Killed (source: justforeignpolicy.org) Not to mention the corruption and greed of Military/Industrial complex... Hello, People…this is the main reason we should be out of Iraq…

Bush Lied, Soldiers Keep Dying.

3,972 U.S. Military Fatalities in Iraq
483 U.S. Military Fatalities in Afghanistan
29,203 U.S. Military Maimed in Iraq (source: DoD Update as of February 20, 2008)
88,991 Iraqis Reported Killed (source: Iraq Body Count)
1,173,743 Iraqis Reported Killed (source: justforeignpolicy.org)

Not to mention the corruption and greed of Military/Industrial complex…

]]> By: jeff http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-18978 jeff Wed, 27 Feb 2008 04:27:25 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-18978 Allbert: The depreciating dollar isn't a result of the debt, but the price of a dollar is a result of free market forces determined by dealers and exchanges in the FX markets. Our government has a lot of debt, but expressed as a factor of GDP, it's managable, especially when compared to some of the countries in the EU. As for the global economy, it's been going on since the spice trade, and is here to stay. Our problem in the States is our inability to adjust to the nature of the inevitible free trade. Our sense of entitlement, high paying union jobs, and bailouts just makes the problem and adjustment worse. Since the countries like China are writing business plans that are successful, perhaps a review of our own business plan would be in order. As for the Republicans gift of a global economy....that is a myth perpetrated by disaffected progressives. Both sides of the aisle supported NAFTA and the other trade agreements. People fail to realize that market forces are so much larger than government forces. Furthermore, what's wrong with doing business with China and other third world countries, as we're helping bring them from a poor society to a rapidly expanding middle class society. We should be proud that we are lifting up the rest of the world, even if it is a sacrifice to us. That just shows the great American Character. We're just being good world neighbors, as far as trade is concerned, and free trade trumps war every time. A sizable percentage of informed Americans would disagree with your statement that Reagan was an idiot. Have you a way to quantify that statement, or is it merely an exercise in hyperbole:) Jeff Allbert:

The depreciating dollar isn’t a result of the debt, but the price of a dollar is a result of free market forces determined by dealers and exchanges in the FX markets. Our government has a lot of debt, but expressed as a factor of GDP, it’s managable, especially when compared to some of the countries in the EU. As for the global economy, it’s been going on since the spice trade, and is here to stay. Our problem in the States is our inability to adjust to the nature of the inevitible free trade. Our sense of entitlement, high paying union jobs, and bailouts just makes the problem and adjustment worse. Since the countries like China are writing business plans that are successful, perhaps a review of our own business plan would be in order. As for the Republicans gift of a global economy….that is a myth perpetrated by disaffected progressives. Both sides of the aisle supported NAFTA and the other trade agreements. People fail to realize that market forces are so much larger than government forces. Furthermore, what’s wrong with doing business with China and other third world countries, as we’re helping bring them from a poor society to a rapidly expanding middle class society. We should be proud that we are lifting up the rest of the world, even if it is a sacrifice to us. That just shows the great American Character. We’re just being good world neighbors, as far as trade is concerned, and free trade trumps war every time.

A sizable percentage of informed Americans would disagree with your statement that Reagan was an idiot. Have you a way to quantify that statement, or is it merely an exercise in hyperbole:)

Jeff

]]> By: allbert kapustar http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-18944 allbert kapustar Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:52:21 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-18944 the war does contribute due to the high debt we have depreciating the dallor but an even bigger cause of the recession is the global economy that idiot ronnie Reagan gave us.Tfhe Republicans gift of a global economy has caused millions to lose their jobs and countless millions more to take low paying jobs all destroying buying power.Quite frankly I am suprised we are not in another Republican caused depression the war does contribute due to the high debt we have depreciating the dallor but an even bigger cause of the recession is the global economy that idiot ronnie Reagan gave us.Tfhe Republicans gift of a global economy has caused millions to lose their jobs and countless millions more to take low paying jobs all destroying buying power.Quite frankly I am suprised we are not in another Republican caused depression

]]> By: Joan http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-18942 Joan Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:26:38 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-18942 As former Edwards supporters, we are thrilled to see their new venture, and want to be a part of it. It is the most important project to undertake, for this country and the world. The Iraq invasion is killing people, ideas, countries, and the future of our existence. Few are connecting the dots, Others, like the media and their treasonous corporatist owners, and our government leaders are purposely diverting us away from this reality. With Al Gore and the Edwards involved in purposeful pursuits, there may be hope. As former Edwards supporters, we are thrilled to see their new venture, and want to be a part of it. It is the most important project to undertake, for this country and the world. The Iraq invasion is killing people, ideas, countries, and the future of our existence. Few are connecting the dots, Others, like the media and their treasonous corporatist owners, and our government leaders are purposely diverting us away from this reality. With Al Gore and the Edwards involved in purposeful pursuits, there may be hope.

]]> By: jeff http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-18927 jeff Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:36:58 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-18927 Curious: The price of gold is so high because of demand coupled with the fact that people think it's going to go up further. The price of gold isn't even close to the high it made in 1979-80, in inflation adjusted dollars. The high price of gold has nothing to do with if we're in a recession or depression, as recessions and depressions tend to be deflationary in the long run. If you look at the Committment of Traders (COT) report for gold, you will find that most of the longs are speculative...mostly hedge fund money. The gold trade is short. If we were in a recession/depression, why would the price of copper be so high as copper only has industrial value. The price of copper is a good leading indicator for the performance of the economy. Anyways, a plurality of people that I've run across that discuss recessions don't even know what the definition of a recession is. Jeff Curious:
The price of gold is so high because of demand coupled with the fact that people think it’s going to go up further. The price of gold isn’t even close to the high it made in 1979-80, in inflation adjusted dollars. The high price of gold has nothing to do with if we’re in a recession or depression, as recessions and depressions tend to be deflationary in the long run. If you look at the Committment of Traders (COT) report for gold, you will find that most of the longs are speculative…mostly hedge fund money. The gold trade is short. If we were in a recession/depression, why would the price of copper be so high as copper only has industrial value. The price of copper is a good leading indicator for the performance of the economy.

Anyways, a plurality of people that I’ve run across that discuss recessions don’t even know what the definition of a recession is.

Jeff

]]> By: Russ Wellen http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-18906 Russ Wellen Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:21:36 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-18906 Maybe that's why he hasn't endorsed -- he's not looking for a job in the next admin. Instead he's going the Al Gore route and effecting change outside the government. I had no idea he was doing this. Announcement caught me by surprise. Maybe that’s why he hasn’t endorsed — he’s not looking for a job in the next admin. Instead he’s going the Al Gore route and effecting change outside the government.

I had no idea he was doing this. Announcement caught me by surprise.

]]> By: Curious http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-18901 Curious Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:46:18 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-18901 Capital... credit... madness... Jeff, if we're not in a depression/recession why is the price of gold so high? Capital… credit… madness… Jeff, if we’re not in a depression/recession why is the price of gold so high?

]]> By: Brian Angliss http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-18899 Brian Angliss Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:18:50 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-18899 As the Ferengi Rules of Aquisition say: "War is good for business" and "Peace is good for business" As the Ferengi Rules of Aquisition say:

“War is good for business”

and

“Peace is good for business”

]]> By: jeff http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-18890 jeff Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:56:20 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-18890 Recessions are part of the normal business cycle. Whether getting out of Iraq shortens a recession is speculative at best. Anyways, one generally doesn't know that we've been in a recession until after two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth, and usually the recession is usually over by the time we realize that we've even had one. As the stock market has been historically considered to be a leading indicator of recessions, the tape right now is telling us that if there is a recession, it will be short. However, the memes going through people's minds intensify a sense of "The madness of herds," and a recession will continue until the meme changes. The media does a good job of creating recessions, such as the 1991-1992 election recession. However, the truth lies in the market, and the market is doing really well in spite of high commodity prices, the sub-prime debacle, and credit crunch. The higher commodity prices are of no great concern, as in inflation adjusted dollars, oil and foodstuffs are not at all time highs. The sub-prime debacle and credit crunch will work themselves out within a year as the capital infusions, lower fed rates, and writedowns take effect. A catalytic event on a a 9/11 scale could change all of this in a second, and one cannot rule that out. Sometimes, history tells us that wars can get us out of recessions and depressions. Not that I'm advocating war.... Jeff Recessions are part of the normal business cycle. Whether getting out of Iraq shortens a recession is speculative at best. Anyways, one generally doesn’t know that we’ve been in a recession until after two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth, and usually the recession is usually over by the time we realize that we’ve even had one. As the stock market has been historically considered to be a leading indicator of recessions, the tape right now is telling us that if there is a recession, it will be short. However, the memes going through people’s minds intensify a sense of “The madness of herds,” and a recession will continue until the meme changes. The media does a good job of creating recessions, such as the 1991-1992 election recession. However, the truth lies in the market, and the market is doing really well in spite of high commodity prices, the sub-prime debacle, and credit crunch. The higher commodity prices are of no great concern, as in inflation adjusted dollars, oil and foodstuffs are not at all time highs. The sub-prime debacle and credit crunch will work themselves out within a year as the capital infusions, lower fed rates, and writedowns take effect.

A catalytic event on a a 9/11 scale could change all of this in a second, and one cannot rule that out. Sometimes, history tells us that wars can get us out of recessions and depressions. Not that I’m advocating war….

Jeff

]]> By: Martin http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-18867 Martin Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:23:40 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-18867 Sam, It's hardly an original idea in its own right--I wasn't the first to say it any more than the campaign is. But if someone in Edwards' camp read it, took it to heart, and got them interested, that, to me, is a thing to be proud of. The trick now is to carry it through. Sam,

It’s hardly an original idea in its own right–I wasn’t the first to say it any more than the campaign is. But if someone in Edwards’ camp read it, took it to heart, and got them interested, that, to me, is a thing to be proud of.

The trick now is to carry it through.

]]> By: Dr. Slammy http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-18865 Dr. Slammy Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:20:46 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-18865 It's hard to know whether Edwards came up with the idea on his own or whether it came to him via other channels, but we do know that you wrote about this fairly prominently sometime back and that your post appeared in a forum that included at least one or two of his people. So good work, Martin, and you can count me in on this effort. Although I'm not sure how this fits in with the "rich lawyer just in it for himself" narrative.... It’s hard to know whether Edwards came up with the idea on his own or whether it came to him via other channels, but we do know that you wrote about this fairly prominently sometime back and that your post appeared in a forum that included at least one or two of his people.

So good work, Martin, and you can count me in on this effort.

Although I’m not sure how this fits in with the “rich lawyer just in it for himself” narrative….

]]> By: www.buzzflash.net http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-18864 www.buzzflash.net Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:18:02 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/02/26/john-and-elizabeth-edwards-agree-getting-us-out-of-iraq-can-end-the-recession/#comment-18864 <strong>John and Elizabeth Edwards agree: Getting us out of Iraq can end the recession...</strong> A campaign to end the Iraq war by tying it to America's looming economic recession has gained some heavyweight political support from no less than John and Elizabeth Edwards.... John and Elizabeth Edwards agree: Getting us out of Iraq can end the recession…

A campaign to end the Iraq war by tying it to America’s looming economic recession has gained some heavyweight political support from no less than John and Elizabeth Edwards….

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