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	<title>Comments on: TunesDay: obscurity and influence</title>
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	<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/</link>
	<description>Think.  It ain&#039;t illegal yet...</description>
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		<title>By: The Holy Trinity of Nu-Wave: 30-Day Song Challenge, the Sequel, day 12: a song you love from the &#8217;00s &#124; Scholars and Rogues</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-93322</link>
		<dc:creator>The Holy Trinity of Nu-Wave: 30-Day Song Challenge, the Sequel, day 12: a song you love from the &#8217;00s &#124; Scholars and Rogues</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2011 17:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-93322</guid>
		<description>[...] Wants Revenge, The Mary Onettes, Shiny Toy Guns, and a zillion others). And what a surprise to see Joy Division emerge as such an important influence on a generation of bands we had no idea was paying attention, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Wants Revenge, The Mary Onettes, Shiny Toy Guns, and a zillion others). And what a surprise to see Joy Division emerge as such an important influence on a generation of bands we had no idea was paying attention, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Darrell</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-21441</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-21441</guid>
		<description>You think with all the different sounds and styles of music these bands incoporate they would try a different apporach to the way they sing the vocals.  You could take vocals from on song and place it on another and no one would miss a beat.  I&#039;m going by the links you provided, not the ones you listed in paragraph 2, those are distinguishable.  I&#039;m not sure if the correct response was to laugh after I heard most of these songs, but it kinda did.  It&#039;s the one genere my band hasn&#039;t covered, and it&#039;s giving me some pretty fun ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You think with all the different sounds and styles of music these bands incoporate they would try a different apporach to the way they sing the vocals.  You could take vocals from on song and place it on another and no one would miss a beat.  I&#8217;m going by the links you provided, not the ones you listed in paragraph 2, those are distinguishable.  I&#8217;m not sure if the correct response was to laugh after I heard most of these songs, but it kinda did.  It&#8217;s the one genere my band hasn&#8217;t covered, and it&#8217;s giving me some pretty fun ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: fikshun</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-21190</link>
		<dc:creator>fikshun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 04:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-21190</guid>
		<description>&quot;Yes, but I never said that influence was necessarily a linear thing. Iâ€™m not sure how many people would listen to your music and infer your worship of The Church, for instance.&quot;

Yeah, a lot of that though is just the age of the artist.  Early influences for me were Click Click and Leather Strip.  Magazines often compared our early material to Click Click and Leather Strip.  You have copyists like me who spend years imitating.  It took me years to find my own voice and sound.  The influential ones find it right away because it never occurs to them to try to learn from others.  Perhaps late bloomers like me could blossom into something special, but music is often a game for the young, at least commercially speaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Yes, but I never said that influence was necessarily a linear thing. Iâ€™m not sure how many people would listen to your music and infer your worship of The Church, for instance.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, a lot of that though is just the age of the artist.  Early influences for me were Click Click and Leather Strip.  Magazines often compared our early material to Click Click and Leather Strip.  You have copyists like me who spend years imitating.  It took me years to find my own voice and sound.  The influential ones find it right away because it never occurs to them to try to learn from others.  Perhaps late bloomers like me could blossom into something special, but music is often a game for the young, at least commercially speaking.</p>
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		<title>By: mikefromtexas</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-21160</link>
		<dc:creator>mikefromtexas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 02:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-21160</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not exactly in the rock genre, but a number of songwriters have had quite an impact on music without the commercial success of their own recordings. Townes Van Zandt may be one of the best examples of an artist influencing future generations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not exactly in the rock genre, but a number of songwriters have had quite an impact on music without the commercial success of their own recordings. Townes Van Zandt may be one of the best examples of an artist influencing future generations.</p>
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		<title>By: jacpine savage</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-21070</link>
		<dc:creator>jacpine savage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 23:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-21070</guid>
		<description>Hmm, not really my cup of musical tea; however, the concept of lesser known bands being more musically influential than very popular bands is interesting.  I have to think that we need to divide the types of influence into two categories.  The Who certainly had more direct, cultural influence than Joy Division.  But an up and coming band can&#039;t make themselves sound like The Who because everyone will say, &quot;pretty cool, you guys sound just like The Who.&quot;

So they find their influence outside the biggest names.  Of course, we have to take into account that they are all musicians.  Musicians dig for music that isn&#039;t on the radio, not for influence, but because they love music.  Howlin&#039; Wolf wasn&#039;t exactly a superstar when the Rolling Stones were influenced by him; in fact, they probably made him a superstar.  Frank Zappa used to talk bad smack about classical music, but its easy to see its influence on his composing.

It&#039;s hard to be completely original, but it is good enough to find lesser known influences and blend them with your own ideas.  It sounds original enough, and then there&#039;s the bonus of finding the influences of your favorite bands...and realizing that there&#039;s even more good music out there that you didn&#039;t even know about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, not really my cup of musical tea; however, the concept of lesser known bands being more musically influential than very popular bands is interesting.  I have to think that we need to divide the types of influence into two categories.  The Who certainly had more direct, cultural influence than Joy Division.  But an up and coming band can&#8217;t make themselves sound like The Who because everyone will say, &#8220;pretty cool, you guys sound just like The Who.&#8221;</p>
<p>So they find their influence outside the biggest names.  Of course, we have to take into account that they are all musicians.  Musicians dig for music that isn&#8217;t on the radio, not for influence, but because they love music.  Howlin&#8217; Wolf wasn&#8217;t exactly a superstar when the Rolling Stones were influenced by him; in fact, they probably made him a superstar.  Frank Zappa used to talk bad smack about classical music, but its easy to see its influence on his composing.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to be completely original, but it is good enough to find lesser known influences and blend them with your own ideas.  It sounds original enough, and then there&#8217;s the bonus of finding the influences of your favorite bands&#8230;and realizing that there&#8217;s even more good music out there that you didn&#8217;t even know about.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Slammy</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-21001</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Slammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-21001</guid>
		<description>Yes, but I never said that influence was necessarily a linear thing. I&#039;m not sure how many people would listen to your music and infer your worship of The Church, for instance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but I never said that influence was necessarily a linear thing. I&#8217;m not sure how many people would listen to your music and infer your worship of The Church, for instance.</p>
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		<title>By: fikshun</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-20998</link>
		<dc:creator>fikshun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-20998</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s particularly interesting reading this post on the heels of your post on Impressionism and rebellion.  I would argue that most of the influential bands you mention, Joy Division in particular, became influential precisely because they didn&#039;t train with masters or learn from extensive copying.  They figured out their own ways of playing their instruments and constructing their songs.

Of the bands that have influenced me in adulthood, most have struck me because I couldn&#039;t immediately figure out what they were doing.  Their techniques, sound choices, and arrangements were all so unorthodox that I couldn&#039;t help but be blown away by their uniqueness.  I&#039;m sure that most of them grew up on pop and rock music, but there was just that general intuitive connection rather than a long, consciously studied approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s particularly interesting reading this post on the heels of your post on Impressionism and rebellion.  I would argue that most of the influential bands you mention, Joy Division in particular, became influential precisely because they didn&#8217;t train with masters or learn from extensive copying.  They figured out their own ways of playing their instruments and constructing their songs.</p>
<p>Of the bands that have influenced me in adulthood, most have struck me because I couldn&#8217;t immediately figure out what they were doing.  Their techniques, sound choices, and arrangements were all so unorthodox that I couldn&#8217;t help but be blown away by their uniqueness.  I&#8217;m sure that most of them grew up on pop and rock music, but there was just that general intuitive connection rather than a long, consciously studied approach.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Slammy</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-20947</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Slammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-20947</guid>
		<description>Hey, I can&#039;t write about EVERYbody. But those are bands that might be worthy subjects for future TunesDays, no doubt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I can&#8217;t write about EVERYbody. But those are bands that might be worthy subjects for future TunesDays, no doubt.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Booth</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-20943</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Booth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-20943</guid>
		<description>The JD stuff is nice, and I wouldn&#039;t argue the power of their influence even if I thought I could. But it would have been nice to see a Velvet Underground and Big Star video among all these dance bands... After all, not all of us find the JD/NO legacy our cup of tea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xcwt9mSbYE&amp;feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3KuIoOc7pI</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The JD stuff is nice, and I wouldn&#8217;t argue the power of their influence even if I thought I could. But it would have been nice to see a Velvet Underground and Big Star video among all these dance bands&#8230; After all, not all of us find the JD/NO legacy our cup of tea&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xcwt9mSbYE&#038;feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xcwt9mSbYE&#038;feature=related</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3KuIoOc7pI" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3KuIoOc7pI</a></p>
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		<title>By: Support this story on Stirrdup</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-20911</link>
		<dc:creator>Support this story on Stirrdup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-20911</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;TunesDay: obscurity and influence...&lt;/strong&gt;

This story has been submitted to Stirrdup.  Your support can help it become hot....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>TunesDay: obscurity and influence&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This story has been submitted to Stirrdup.  Your support can help it become hot&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-20908</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-20908</guid>
		<description>I understand that.  I wish more obscure influences could attain the commercial success of those they influence.  It isn&#039;t good to be hungry all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand that.  I wish more obscure influences could attain the commercial success of those they influence.  It isn&#8217;t good to be hungry all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Slammy</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-20901</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Slammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-20901</guid>
		<description>Not at all. The Beatles were one of the most accessible bands in history, and my CD collection is chock full of accessible. It&#039;s just interesting how sometimes very successful commercial bands owe so much to bands that never attracted much of an audience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not at all. The Beatles were one of the most accessible bands in history, and my CD collection is chock full of accessible. It&#8217;s just interesting how sometimes very successful commercial bands owe so much to bands that never attracted much of an audience.</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-20897</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-20897</guid>
		<description>So long as you do not consider accessible to be a negative.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So long as you do not consider accessible to be a negative.  <img src='http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Slammy</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-20896</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Slammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-20896</guid>
		<description>I think your reaction says a lot about the whole string from JD to now, Elaine. The last two are the most accessible, and JD wasn&#039;t ever going to have a string of Top 40 hits, I don&#039;t think. It sort of forces me to contemplate, as I often do, the difference between what I like and what I think is great (and to lament that my heart and head aren&#039;t in better alignment....)  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your reaction says a lot about the whole string from JD to now, Elaine. The last two are the most accessible, and JD wasn&#8217;t ever going to have a string of Top 40 hits, I don&#8217;t think. It sort of forces me to contemplate, as I often do, the difference between what I like and what I think is great (and to lament that my heart and head aren&#8217;t in better alignment&#8230;.)  <img src='http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-20892</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/04/tunesday-obscurity-and-influence/#comment-20892</guid>
		<description>Really enjoyed the last two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really enjoyed the last two.</p>
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