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	<title>Comments on: Burning down The Can</title>
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	<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/</link>
	<description>Think - it ain&#039;t illegal yet...</description>
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		<title>By: jackpine savage</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/comment-page-1/#comment-22650</link>
		<dc:creator>jackpine savage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 14:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/#comment-22650</guid>
		<description>Of course, the possibilities have to be compared to something, and Chicago &#039;68 is about all we have to compare the possible Denver &#039;08 to.  But let&#039;s consider the changing reality of American society in the last 40 years.   How many kids in the 60&#039;s took guns to school and fired them randomly at their fellow students?  How many &#039;68 protesters grew up in a culture thoroughly saturated with gratuitous violence?  And what does the modern protester have to lose?  The better informed among them already know that they live under a proto-dictatorship.

I don&#039;t doubt that the fondest wishes of the neo-con set would be violence erupting in Denver and spreading like wildfire.  A. it could all be blamed on the darkie with the Muslim name and B. it would be the perfect excuse for the big clamp down.  Nor do i doubt planned infiltrations and provocations.  This is why the DNC had damned well better solve their squabbles long before August.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, the possibilities have to be compared to something, and Chicago &#8216;68 is about all we have to compare the possible Denver &#8216;08 to.  But let&#8217;s consider the changing reality of American society in the last 40 years.   How many kids in the 60&#8217;s took guns to school and fired them randomly at their fellow students?  How many &#8216;68 protesters grew up in a culture thoroughly saturated with gratuitous violence?  And what does the modern protester have to lose?  The better informed among them already know that they live under a proto-dictatorship.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t doubt that the fondest wishes of the neo-con set would be violence erupting in Denver and spreading like wildfire.  A. it could all be blamed on the darkie with the Muslim name and B. it would be the perfect excuse for the big clamp down.  Nor do i doubt planned infiltrations and provocations.  This is why the DNC had damned well better solve their squabbles long before August.</p>
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		<title>By: Brownell</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/comment-page-1/#comment-22328</link>
		<dc:creator>Brownell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>OOOKAY... So armed insurrectionists are planning to storm the Denver convention and demand that Barack Obama be nominated instead of Hillary Clinton.  Evidently the great effort both candidates have made to exaggerate the hair&#039;s-breadth difference between them has paid off in the armed insurrectionist demographic.  What I&#039;m wondering is, are there armed insurrectionists in Minneapolis planning the same treatment for the Republicans?  It seems more logical that armed insurrection would choose Ron Paul over John McCain rather than try to parse the difference between Obama and Clinton.  Remember, the difference between Obama and Clinton is in the heads of people who think that if you say you&#039;re for change it must be true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OOOKAY&#8230; So armed insurrectionists are planning to storm the Denver convention and demand that Barack Obama be nominated instead of Hillary Clinton.  Evidently the great effort both candidates have made to exaggerate the hair&#8217;s-breadth difference between them has paid off in the armed insurrectionist demographic.  What I&#8217;m wondering is, are there armed insurrectionists in Minneapolis planning the same treatment for the Republicans?  It seems more logical that armed insurrection would choose Ron Paul over John McCain rather than try to parse the difference between Obama and Clinton.  Remember, the difference between Obama and Clinton is in the heads of people who think that if you say you&#8217;re for change it must be true.</p>
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		<title>By: nebris</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/comment-page-1/#comment-22096</link>
		<dc:creator>nebris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 04:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/#comment-22096</guid>
		<description>This is from my Live Journal:

~Okay, here is why I believe the Repugs &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; to run against Barack Obama this fall. 

First, it is a given that they will do their damnedest to steal the election just like they did in 2000 and 2004. If you still have any doubts about that, watch &lt;a href=&quot;http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3954858769441262005&amp;q=greg+palast+may+day+2007&amp;total=9&amp;start=0&amp;num=10&amp;so=0&amp;type=search&amp;plindex=0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this video of Greg Palast and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. speaking last May Day&lt;/a&gt; about how the Repugs did that very thing.

Second, keep in mind all the draconian  legislation the Repugs have rammed through Congress, little horrors like &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Commissions_Act&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Military Commissions Act&lt;/a&gt; which, among other things, makes it possible for US citizens to be designated &#039;unlawful enemy combatants&#039; and held without any form of legal recourse whatsoever. 

Third, if you&#039;re not already aware of this â€“ and it still surprises me how many ain&#039;t â€“ lots of black folks in this country are pretty pissed off at how badly they&#039;ve been treated throughout American history [just Google &#039;lynching&#039;] and often still are. [can you say Jena 6?]

As a member of The Oppressor Class [an upper-middle class white male], I have a certain cynical perspective upon all of this and, I if was running the Repug operations, I&#039;d want Barack, too. 

What I would do is steal the election in the most egregious manner possible; do it in a real Fuck You fashion. I would do this because I&#039;d hope â€“ and quite probably quite rightly given number three above â€“ that black folks in various urban areas would &#039;get&#039; that Fuck You and lash out publicly.

Now we have &lt;i&gt;Civil Insurrection!!&lt;/i&gt; and all the &#039;extra judicial&#039; mechanisms put in place [see number two above] come into play and the Repugs get to declare Martial Law...and that, boys and girls, is just about that. 

Paranoid? Baby, if you ain&#039;t paranoid by now, well, just get another beer and go back to watching &lt;i&gt;American Idol.&lt;/i&gt; 

And some of you Obots? *sigh* Just last night on my Flist a &lt;i&gt;black female&lt;/i&gt; friend of mine said, â€œif Hillary gets the nomination I&#039;m voting for McCainâ€. Shit, why not just go down to Homeland Security and turn yourself in right now? I&#039;m sure they have a cot ready somewhere.

Of course, the Repugs are going to try to steal the election if HRC is the Dem Nom. But, frankly, A) do any of you think people will riot over Hillary? and B) would any of you want to cross Hillary Clinton? [I didn&#039;t think so]  And don&#039;t think she ain&#039;t ready for this. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has been one of her supporters for a while now.

As I said to someone else on my Flist last night, â€œPolitics is not a game for the faint of heart.â€ And that&#039;s the name of that tune...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is from my Live Journal:</p>
<p>~Okay, here is why I believe the Repugs <i>want</i> to run against Barack Obama this fall. </p>
<p>First, it is a given that they will do their damnedest to steal the election just like they did in 2000 and 2004. If you still have any doubts about that, watch <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3954858769441262005&amp;q=greg+palast+may+day+2007&amp;total=9&amp;start=0&amp;num=10&amp;so=0&amp;type=search&amp;plindex=0" rel="nofollow">this video of Greg Palast and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. speaking last May Day</a> about how the Repugs did that very thing.</p>
<p>Second, keep in mind all the draconian  legislation the Repugs have rammed through Congress, little horrors like <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Commissions_Act" rel="nofollow">The Military Commissions Act</a> which, among other things, makes it possible for US citizens to be designated &#8216;unlawful enemy combatants&#8217; and held without any form of legal recourse whatsoever. </p>
<p>Third, if you&#8217;re not already aware of this â€“ and it still surprises me how many ain&#8217;t â€“ lots of black folks in this country are pretty pissed off at how badly they&#8217;ve been treated throughout American history [just Google 'lynching'] and often still are. [can you say Jena 6?]</p>
<p>As a member of The Oppressor Class [an upper-middle class white male], I have a certain cynical perspective upon all of this and, I if was running the Repug operations, I&#8217;d want Barack, too. </p>
<p>What I would do is steal the election in the most egregious manner possible; do it in a real Fuck You fashion. I would do this because I&#8217;d hope â€“ and quite probably quite rightly given number three above â€“ that black folks in various urban areas would &#8216;get&#8217; that Fuck You and lash out publicly.</p>
<p>Now we have <i>Civil Insurrection!!</i> and all the &#8216;extra judicial&#8217; mechanisms put in place [see number two above] come into play and the Repugs get to declare Martial Law&#8230;and that, boys and girls, is just about that. </p>
<p>Paranoid? Baby, if you ain&#8217;t paranoid by now, well, just get another beer and go back to watching <i>American Idol.</i> </p>
<p>And some of you Obots? *sigh* Just last night on my Flist a <i>black female</i> friend of mine said, â€œif Hillary gets the nomination I&#8217;m voting for McCainâ€. Shit, why not just go down to Homeland Security and turn yourself in right now? I&#8217;m sure they have a cot ready somewhere.</p>
<p>Of course, the Repugs are going to try to steal the election if HRC is the Dem Nom. But, frankly, A) do any of you think people will riot over Hillary? and B) would any of you want to cross Hillary Clinton? [I didn't think so]  And don&#8217;t think she ain&#8217;t ready for this. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has been one of her supporters for a while now.</p>
<p>As I said to someone else on my Flist last night, â€œPolitics is not a game for the faint of heart.â€ And that&#8217;s the name of that tune&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Chandler</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/comment-page-1/#comment-21967</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Chandler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/#comment-21967</guid>
		<description>In a building of gold, with riches untold,
lived the families on which the country was founded.
And the merchants of style, with their red velvet smiles,
were there, for they also were hounded.
And the soft middle class crowded in to the last,
for the building was fully surrounded.
And the noise outside was the ringing of revolution.

â€” Phil Ochs, Ringing of Revolution</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a building of gold, with riches untold,<br />
lived the families on which the country was founded.<br />
And the merchants of style, with their red velvet smiles,<br />
were there, for they also were hounded.<br />
And the soft middle class crowded in to the last,<br />
for the building was fully surrounded.<br />
And the noise outside was the ringing of revolution.</p>
<p>â€” Phil Ochs, Ringing of Revolution</p>
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		<title>By: Freedem</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/comment-page-1/#comment-21956</link>
		<dc:creator>Freedem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/#comment-21956</guid>
		<description>Two things-
#1 and perhaps the most to the point the Gang Of Pirates would love not to have any elections at all, and just install a trained chimp as &quot;Presidente for life&quot;. They have all their ducks in a row and only need an excuse to go from proto-Fascist to atual Fascist and just as they inflated 9/11 they could inflate anything to fit their needs.

#2 It is a well rehearsed Pirate tactic to work for dissension and violence in the  opposition. I remember many such stories about plans for violence in demonstrations in the Nixon years, and when the stories got to court long after the real demonstrators had been sidelined during the important timing it turned out that the instigator of the violence, and planner of all the mean stuff was in fact the FBI agent sent in to destroy the group. Something very well accomplished.

The same tactic of two pretend support groups of Dean and Gephart fought it out on TV in 2004, turning voters off of both men, only to turn out that both groups were Republican Swiftboaters out to remove Dean  as the likely candidate. And again quite successful.

You can bet that the same groups are both active in both the Clinton and Obama camps, and likely have a few Astroturf groups outside both as well, and not a few like Lieberman even among the superdelegates.

So fight out for the rest of the elections, and fight the dirty tricks, especially from your own camp (and mark well those who create them), but no matter what happens, make peace at Denver and then go fight like hell against the real enemy of freedom.

Once and If there is an election, then we need to make the mountains shake, to be sure that the rule of law is returned, truth outed by Congress and courts, criminals of the past prosecuted, and real reform of the destruction begun. That is the time to vent your spleen, do so in Denver and your spleen will be vented for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two things-<br />
#1 and perhaps the most to the point the Gang Of Pirates would love not to have any elections at all, and just install a trained chimp as &#8220;Presidente for life&#8221;. They have all their ducks in a row and only need an excuse to go from proto-Fascist to atual Fascist and just as they inflated 9/11 they could inflate anything to fit their needs.</p>
<p>#2 It is a well rehearsed Pirate tactic to work for dissension and violence in the  opposition. I remember many such stories about plans for violence in demonstrations in the Nixon years, and when the stories got to court long after the real demonstrators had been sidelined during the important timing it turned out that the instigator of the violence, and planner of all the mean stuff was in fact the FBI agent sent in to destroy the group. Something very well accomplished.</p>
<p>The same tactic of two pretend support groups of Dean and Gephart fought it out on TV in 2004, turning voters off of both men, only to turn out that both groups were Republican Swiftboaters out to remove Dean  as the likely candidate. And again quite successful.</p>
<p>You can bet that the same groups are both active in both the Clinton and Obama camps, and likely have a few Astroturf groups outside both as well, and not a few like Lieberman even among the superdelegates.</p>
<p>So fight out for the rest of the elections, and fight the dirty tricks, especially from your own camp (and mark well those who create them), but no matter what happens, make peace at Denver and then go fight like hell against the real enemy of freedom.</p>
<p>Once and If there is an election, then we need to make the mountains shake, to be sure that the rule of law is returned, truth outed by Congress and courts, criminals of the past prosecuted, and real reform of the destruction begun. That is the time to vent your spleen, do so in Denver and your spleen will be vented for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ Wellen</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/comment-page-1/#comment-21946</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Wellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/#comment-21946</guid>
		<description>Cracks me up, Brian, that you didn&#039;t know what SDS was. Boy does that make Jim and I look old in comparison.

I fear you&#039;re exactly right, Jim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cracks me up, Brian, that you didn&#8217;t know what SDS was. Boy does that make Jim and I look old in comparison.</p>
<p>I fear you&#8217;re exactly right, Jim.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/comment-page-1/#comment-21913</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/#comment-21913</guid>
		<description>SDSer?  Member of the Society of Deranged Socialites?  :)

Google tells me SDS is Students for a Democratic Society.  Is that what you meant?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SDSer?  Member of the Society of Deranged Socialites?  <img src='http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Google tells me SDS is Students for a Democratic Society.  Is that what you meant?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Booth</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/comment-page-1/#comment-21900</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Booth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/#comment-21900</guid>
		<description>Let me speak as S&amp;R&#039;s token SDSer: if they do this (get militant in the streets of Denver during the Dem Convention) and the act-up is televised like violence in the Iraq War has been televised, no one will know it happened. Look at what happened as a result of the &quot;Action Directe&quot; that was the G-8 in Seattle....

If, however, the media chooses to depict televise rioting, they will do so in a way to cause more fear and anxiety in &quot;silent&quot; America. And you&#039;ll be one step closer to streets patrolled by Blackwater types for &quot;the good of the country.&quot;

&quot;The revolution will be televised&quot; may become &quot;the enforcement of &#039;normalcy&#039;&quot; with all the scariness that the measures &quot;deemed necessary&quot; your imagination can suggest....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me speak as S&#038;R&#8217;s token SDSer: if they do this (get militant in the streets of Denver during the Dem Convention) and the act-up is televised like violence in the Iraq War has been televised, no one will know it happened. Look at what happened as a result of the &#8220;Action Directe&#8221; that was the G-8 in Seattle&#8230;.</p>
<p>If, however, the media chooses to depict televise rioting, they will do so in a way to cause more fear and anxiety in &#8220;silent&#8221; America. And you&#8217;ll be one step closer to streets patrolled by Blackwater types for &#8220;the good of the country.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The revolution will be televised&#8221; may become &#8220;the enforcement of &#8216;normalcy&#8217;&#8221; with all the scariness that the measures &#8220;deemed necessary&#8221; your imagination can suggest&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/comment-page-1/#comment-21873</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/#comment-21873</guid>
		<description>Russ - People do that because it&#039;s mentally easy to conflate discussion with advocacy, criticism with bigotry.  They&#039;re intellectual lazy, and in my experience, we all do that on one issue or another, at one time or another.  I certainly have.

The trick is to realize that we&#039;ve done it when someone points it out instead of fighting to the death over something that doesn&#039;t make any sense.  And far too many people find arguing easier than thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russ &#8211; People do that because it&#8217;s mentally easy to conflate discussion with advocacy, criticism with bigotry.  They&#8217;re intellectual lazy, and in my experience, we all do that on one issue or another, at one time or another.  I certainly have.</p>
<p>The trick is to realize that we&#8217;ve done it when someone points it out instead of fighting to the death over something that doesn&#8217;t make any sense.  And far too many people find arguing easier than thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: www.buzzflash.net</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/comment-page-1/#comment-21838</link>
		<dc:creator>www.buzzflash.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/#comment-21838</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Burning down The Can...&lt;/strong&gt;

I wonder how a bit of genuine fear might impact the official actions of serial malfeasants like Pelosi, Clinton, Reid, Reyes, and 99% of the Republican Party. Hard to say, but what are they going to do about it? Suspend habeas corpus? Conspire with the...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Burning down The Can&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>I wonder how a bit of genuine fear might impact the official actions of serial malfeasants like Pelosi, Clinton, Reid, Reyes, and 99% of the Republican Party. Hard to say, but what are they going to do about it? Suspend habeas corpus? Conspire with the&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Russ Wellen</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/comment-page-1/#comment-21826</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Wellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/#comment-21826</guid>
		<description>In my wanderings through the Internet, I find more and more that people equate just mentioning something with advocating it. This could be a very long thread -- and almost as unruly as the riots of &#039;68.

Also, Dr. B., keep that terror-ier on a leash!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my wanderings through the Internet, I find more and more that people equate just mentioning something with advocating it. This could be a very long thread &#8212; and almost as unruly as the riots of &#8216;68.</p>
<p>Also, Dr. B., keep that terror-ier on a leash!</p>
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		<title>By: Devan888</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/comment-page-1/#comment-21702</link>
		<dc:creator>Devan888</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 05:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/#comment-21702</guid>
		<description>malfeasants</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>malfeasants</p>
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		<title>By: JS O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/comment-page-1/#comment-21634</link>
		<dc:creator>JS O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/03/05/burning-down-the-can/#comment-21634</guid>
		<description>American politics is almost certain to get violent, given the tone of the rhetoric and the consolidation of power among the few.  

I think it&#039;s just a question of when.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>American politics is almost certain to get violent, given the tone of the rhetoric and the consolidation of power among the few.  </p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s just a question of when.</p>
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