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	<title>Comments on: The Weekly Carboholic: powering Europe from the Sahara</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/</link>
	<description>Think - it ain&#039;t illegal yet...</description>
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		<title>By: Scholars and Rogues &#187; The Weekly Carboholic: traditional media errs on latest permafrost study</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-53317</link>
		<dc:creator>Scholars and Rogues &#187; The Weekly Carboholic: traditional media errs on latest permafrost study</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-53317</guid>
		<description>[...] up a way for the city of Berkeley to help homeowners pay for photovoltaic panels on their homes - assess the cost in property taxes. According to the NYTimes last week, Mr. DeVries&#8217; proposal was unanimously approved by the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] up a way for the city of Berkeley to help homeowners pay for photovoltaic panels on their homes &#8211; assess the cost in property taxes. According to the NYTimes last week, Mr. DeVries&#8217; proposal was unanimously approved by the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scholars and Rogues &#187; The Weekly Carboholic: boosting energy efficiency is hard to do</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38878</link>
		<dc:creator>Scholars and Rogues &#187; The Weekly Carboholic: boosting energy efficiency is hard to do</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 20:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38878</guid>
		<description>[...] to correct a market distortion, that the truly interesting ideas come up. The Weekly Carboholic reported on one such plan in Berkeley, California last week, and the Economist reports on couple more: Typically, an [energy-service company (ESCo)] designs a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to correct a market distortion, that the truly interesting ideas come up. The Weekly Carboholic reported on one such plan in Berkeley, California last week, and the Economist reports on couple more: Typically, an [energy-service company (ESCo)] designs a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38462</link>
		<dc:creator>elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 16:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38462</guid>
		<description>...that was me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;that was me.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38431</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 09:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38431</guid>
		<description>&quot;And you wonâ€™t believe how much different real meat/poultry/eggs taste.&quot;

I only buy free range eggs...because I hate the idea of the hens cooped up all day on egg production.

...and I eat the best quality produce I can buy.  

I remember the day I viewed the &#039;countryside&#039; differently.  I was 23 and someone who called himself a farmer.  I couldn&#039;t believe he had the gall to call himself by that name...all his &#039;cattle&#039; were kept confined to a shed...they never grazed in British pastures.

less people=less food production</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And you wonâ€™t believe how much different real meat/poultry/eggs taste.&#8221;</p>
<p>I only buy free range eggs&#8230;because I hate the idea of the hens cooped up all day on egg production.</p>
<p>&#8230;and I eat the best quality produce I can buy.  </p>
<p>I remember the day I viewed the &#8216;countryside&#8217; differently.  I was 23 and someone who called himself a farmer.  I couldn&#8217;t believe he had the gall to call himself by that name&#8230;all his &#8216;cattle&#8217; were kept confined to a shed&#8230;they never grazed in British pastures.</p>
<p>less people=less food production</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Denny</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38400</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Denny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 01:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38400</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know where you find all this stuff, Brian. But it&#039;s rapidly filling my carbo-info-depleted mind. Thanks again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know where you find all this stuff, Brian. But it&#8217;s rapidly filling my carbo-info-depleted mind. Thanks again.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ Wellen</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38328</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Wellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 17:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38328</guid>
		<description>Thanks again, Brian, for keeping all us liberal arts types up to speed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks again, Brian, for keeping all us liberal arts types up to speed.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38325</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 16:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38325</guid>
		<description>Interesting links on terrawatts, Michael, thanks.  That is (in my humble estimation) exactly how we do it.  The key is decentralization.  Approaching energy from a decentralized starting point will allow us to implement a great many more possible solutions.  And more micro-grids mean less strain on main grids; less strain on those will make implementing renewable generation more feasible in those applications.  

Elaine, i do what i can.  Unfortunately, those battery hens make up the majority of hens.  But if you look around, you can find farmers who do things well.  And you won&#039;t believe how much different real meat/poultry/eggs taste.

I&#039;d love to wax nostalgic and hopeful about agriculture, but i promised the second half of my day off to a close friend.  So i&#039;m off to a friendly Ohmstead where the chickens chicken like they were meant to (which may or may not include sexually molesting the resident cat) and there is fencing to be put up and the finishing touches on a new, four-season greenhouse.  No pay, but i&#039;ll come home with a broiler or two and some eggs....and maybe some rabbit meat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting links on terrawatts, Michael, thanks.  That is (in my humble estimation) exactly how we do it.  The key is decentralization.  Approaching energy from a decentralized starting point will allow us to implement a great many more possible solutions.  And more micro-grids mean less strain on main grids; less strain on those will make implementing renewable generation more feasible in those applications.  </p>
<p>Elaine, i do what i can.  Unfortunately, those battery hens make up the majority of hens.  But if you look around, you can find farmers who do things well.  And you won&#8217;t believe how much different real meat/poultry/eggs taste.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d love to wax nostalgic and hopeful about agriculture, but i promised the second half of my day off to a close friend.  So i&#8217;m off to a friendly Ohmstead where the chickens chicken like they were meant to (which may or may not include sexually molesting the resident cat) and there is fencing to be put up and the finishing touches on a new, four-season greenhouse.  No pay, but i&#8217;ll come home with a broiler or two and some eggs&#8230;.and maybe some rabbit meat.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38323</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 15:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38323</guid>
		<description>There is a new world wide web emerging right before our eyes. It is a global energy network and, like the internet, it will change our culture, society and how we do business.  More importantly, it will alter how we use, transform and exchange energy. 

For more information, see http://www.terrawatts.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a new world wide web emerging right before our eyes. It is a global energy network and, like the internet, it will change our culture, society and how we do business.  More importantly, it will alter how we use, transform and exchange energy. </p>
<p>For more information, see <a href="http://www.terrawatts.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.terrawatts.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38322</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 14:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38322</guid>
		<description>&quot;While it is true that we use far too much land/energy to feed meat, we should keep in mind that our method of livestock farming is not the only (or even traditional) way to do it. Actually grazing livestock is environmentally beneficial. The crops are â€œno-tillâ€ and often perennial. The livestock actually replace a great deal of farm machinery and industrial output. The cow not only produces the fertilizer, but also spreads it; if poultry is then grazed behind the cattle, the birds further spread the fertilizer, get protein from the grubs that hatch in it, and add more fertilizer (fertilizer that compliments the fertilizer from the cow).&quot;

...for a moment there you made me forget about battery hens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;While it is true that we use far too much land/energy to feed meat, we should keep in mind that our method of livestock farming is not the only (or even traditional) way to do it. Actually grazing livestock is environmentally beneficial. The crops are â€œno-tillâ€ and often perennial. The livestock actually replace a great deal of farm machinery and industrial output. The cow not only produces the fertilizer, but also spreads it; if poultry is then grazed behind the cattle, the birds further spread the fertilizer, get protein from the grubs that hatch in it, and add more fertilizer (fertilizer that compliments the fertilizer from the cow).&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;for a moment there you made me forget about battery hens.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38279</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 03:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38279</guid>
		<description>Great one!

The Sahara idea really does sound like a win-win.  I&#039;m reminded of the feud between Edison and Tesla over AC/DC.  It&#039;s probably too late to go back and change our minds on that decision.

I do think that solutions like TREC are what we need to look at, but i always hesitate when something feels like a silver bullet.  Wouldn&#039;t the Sahara project be much more feasible if EU buildings were generating as much of their own energy as possible?  Wouldn&#039;t it make sense to keep those windfarms?

The argument about eating less meat is solid, but it&#039;s also based on a fallacy.  While it is true that we use far too much land/energy to feed meat, we should keep in mind that our method of livestock farming is not the only (or even traditional) way to do it.  Actually grazing livestock is environmentally beneficial.  The crops are &quot;no-till&quot; and often perennial.  The livestock actually replace a great deal of farm machinery and industrial output.  The cow not only produces the fertilizer, but also spreads it; if poultry is then grazed behind the cattle, the birds further spread the fertilizer, get protein from the grubs that hatch in it, and add more fertilizer (fertilizer that compliments the fertilizer from the cow).

None of that changes that fact that eating less meat makes the most sense; in fact, returning to grazed meat would probably require eating less meat.  But replacing meat with grains for human consumption does not improve the situation much...agriculturally or environmentally.  Right now, well farmed meat is more expensive, but if you eat less of it then it is affordable.

For those who might be interested, the section of &lt;i&gt;The Omnivore&#039;s Dilemma&lt;/i&gt; (Pollan) on Polyface Farms is an excellent description of how a livestocking operation can be run.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great one!</p>
<p>The Sahara idea really does sound like a win-win.  I&#8217;m reminded of the feud between Edison and Tesla over AC/DC.  It&#8217;s probably too late to go back and change our minds on that decision.</p>
<p>I do think that solutions like TREC are what we need to look at, but i always hesitate when something feels like a silver bullet.  Wouldn&#8217;t the Sahara project be much more feasible if EU buildings were generating as much of their own energy as possible?  Wouldn&#8217;t it make sense to keep those windfarms?</p>
<p>The argument about eating less meat is solid, but it&#8217;s also based on a fallacy.  While it is true that we use far too much land/energy to feed meat, we should keep in mind that our method of livestock farming is not the only (or even traditional) way to do it.  Actually grazing livestock is environmentally beneficial.  The crops are &#8220;no-till&#8221; and often perennial.  The livestock actually replace a great deal of farm machinery and industrial output.  The cow not only produces the fertilizer, but also spreads it; if poultry is then grazed behind the cattle, the birds further spread the fertilizer, get protein from the grubs that hatch in it, and add more fertilizer (fertilizer that compliments the fertilizer from the cow).</p>
<p>None of that changes that fact that eating less meat makes the most sense; in fact, returning to grazed meat would probably require eating less meat.  But replacing meat with grains for human consumption does not improve the situation much&#8230;agriculturally or environmentally.  Right now, well farmed meat is more expensive, but if you eat less of it then it is affordable.</p>
<p>For those who might be interested, the section of <i>The Omnivore&#8217;s Dilemma</i> (Pollan) on Polyface Farms is an excellent description of how a livestocking operation can be run.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Sheehan</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38191</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Sheehan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 19:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38191</guid>
		<description>Keep up the great--and important--work, Brian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep up the great&#8211;and important&#8211;work, Brian.</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38187</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 19:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38187</guid>
		<description>This has got to be the best Weekly Carbo introduction ever...because of the positivity. ;)

&quot;The oil of the 21st century is not buried deep within the earth. Instead, it falls on its surface -- as sunshine.&quot;  Wonderful two sentences...although I realise not yours.

If I could I would solar panel my house today!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has got to be the best Weekly Carbo introduction ever&#8230;because of the positivity. <img src='http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>&#8220;The oil of the 21st century is not buried deep within the earth. Instead, it falls on its surface &#8212; as sunshine.&#8221;  Wonderful two sentences&#8230;although I realise not yours.</p>
<p>If I could I would solar panel my house today!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38180</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 17:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38180</guid>
		<description>Djerrid - thanks for pointing out the new U.S. solar thermal plants.  I&#039;d specifically avoided them to not cloud the story about the Sahara, but the U.S. is finally starting to get back into the action on this technology.  As for printable solar cells, I&#039;d just love it if I could convert my roof shingles into solar cells.  And that day is getting closer and closer, thankfully.  I think I&#039;d still like to hire someone to do my roof for me, though.  :)

Doc - I think you finally developed your barbecue recipe enough to let others eat it after I&#039;d left the ranks of the quasi-vegetarians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Djerrid &#8211; thanks for pointing out the new U.S. solar thermal plants.  I&#8217;d specifically avoided them to not cloud the story about the Sahara, but the U.S. is finally starting to get back into the action on this technology.  As for printable solar cells, I&#8217;d just love it if I could convert my roof shingles into solar cells.  And that day is getting closer and closer, thankfully.  I think I&#8217;d still like to hire someone to do my roof for me, though.  <img src='http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Doc &#8211; I think you finally developed your barbecue recipe enough to let others eat it after I&#8217;d left the ranks of the quasi-vegetarians.</p>
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		<title>By: Djerrid</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38178</link>
		<dc:creator>Djerrid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 17:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38178</guid>
		<description>One &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology.html?in_article_id=449500&amp;in_page_id=1965&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;solar-powered BBQ&lt;/a&gt; coming right up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology.html?in_article_id=449500&amp;in_page_id=1965" rel="nofollow">solar-powered BBQ</a> coming right up!</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Slammy</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38176</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Slammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 17:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38176</guid>
		<description>You left out barbecue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You left out barbecue.</p>
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		<title>By: Djerrid</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38175</link>
		<dc:creator>Djerrid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 17:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38175</guid>
		<description>Another great Weekly, Brian. Of all of the current alternative energy concepts in the pipeline, solar-thermal is by far the most promising for immediate, large scale production. And don&#039;t forget the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/06/business/06solar.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;local success story&lt;/a&gt;  in our neck of the woods. 

In the long term, I think cheap, even disposable, solar cells will be the &lt;i&gt;de facto&lt;/i&gt; means that we will get our power. For a couple hundred dollars and a few hours of do-it-yourself anyone can put it up on their roof and connect it to the local grid. The power company will pay you for the surplus and you can take what you need from them during the night. We&#039;ll just have to wait until the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4253464.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;printing press&lt;/a&gt; gets set up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another great Weekly, Brian. Of all of the current alternative energy concepts in the pipeline, solar-thermal is by far the most promising for immediate, large scale production. And don&#8217;t forget the <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/06/business/06solar.html" rel="nofollow">local success story</a>  in our neck of the woods. </p>
<p>In the long term, I think cheap, even disposable, solar cells will be the <i>de facto</i> means that we will get our power. For a couple hundred dollars and a few hours of do-it-yourself anyone can put it up on their roof and connect it to the local grid. The power company will pay you for the surplus and you can take what you need from them during the night. We&#8217;ll just have to wait until the <a href="http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4253464.html" rel="nofollow">printing press</a> gets set up.</p>
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		<title>By: www.buzzflash.net</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/05/07/the-weekly-carboholic-powering-europe-from-the-sahara/comment-page-1/#comment-38170</link>
		<dc:creator>www.buzzflash.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 16:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=2058#comment-38170</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The Weekly Carboholic: powering Europe from the Sahara...&lt;/strong&gt;

This week&#039;s issue: powering Europe from the Sahara; Berkeley CA has a new way to finance household solar; eat low on the food chain to reduce CO2 emissions; climate prediction for 10 years out attempted; nuclear not as CO2-friendly as industry claims...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The Weekly Carboholic: powering Europe from the Sahara&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This week&#8217;s issue: powering Europe from the Sahara; Berkeley CA has a new way to finance household solar; eat low on the food chain to reduce CO2 emissions; climate prediction for 10 years out attempted; nuclear not as CO2-friendly as industry claims&#8230;</p>
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