Whatever happens, everyone will be watching. And I, for one, think that the race issue has been rather subdued. For real race-hate politics, please take a look at present-day South Africa some time.

Congrats, the US is proving its maturity.

Now it makes more sense. I didn’t realize your anger was pre-existing, dating back to the actual primary and the coverage surrounding it. I thought it seemed far out of proportion to the possible stimulus of this particular conversation, and that was what I was asking. If descending into personal attacks is not a method of argument you respect, I have to believe it would serve you far better as an intelligent, articulate person to refrain from it yourself, even under provocation – and especially under a perceived provocation of the exact same type. This is precisely what I meant by “giving each other credit.” Maybe it’s an impossible dream.

Thank you for at least not deleting your original answer before lumping me in with everyone else who wearies you. Serves me right for having a Rodney King moment in public, I guess.

While you’re welcome to add whever subtext you like to the point I was originally trying to make, I’m done with this conversation. Being one of the unwashed and uneducated masses, my observations and experiences are clearly without value. Congratulations on having the money to get an education with which you can insult and belittle others. Quite an accomplishment.

The attitudes towards wealth are varied and change depending on context. Broadly, the very wealthy are seen as corrupt to the core. When it comes to wealthy locals (born and bred) however, the attitude changes and they are seen with respectful admiration. The view of the very poor seems to be dependent on the reason for their circumstances, real or imagined. Of course, all of this is said in the broadest possible terms, and the people and attitudes there are as varied as they are anywhere else in the world.

Regarding attitudes towards women, I think that the area’s Christian traditions informs their view of gender roles.

Beyond that though, I think it’s difficult to say….same old story. My sister visited WV, and was one day subjected to extremely rude treatment at a local BP gas station (by a single individual, in a manner that did not reveal the thinking behind the clerk’s attitude). Was it because she was a female? Was it because she is a person of color? Was the clerk an incredibly sweet person who just happened to be having a horrible day? Who knows.

edit: Didn’t see your other comment before posting, . RE “I can’t find any statement in this post or in this thread that West Virginians are the most racist bastards on earth, so why the animus?”

The time surrounding the WV primary saw a barrage of poorly informed attacks on the people of the state. I met so many good people during my time there that I take these attacks very personally. The ‘logic’ I have seen in support of these attacks is consistently flimsy and can be applied to any state, yet the good people of WV are repeatedly singled out as being particularly racist. It’s nonsense, pure and simple. As for you belief that JS “has my number” – you’re certainly entitled to your opinion, as is he/she. I’m so weary of it all – think as you like. I know the people of West Virginia better that most I’ve heard from online – and they will always have my respect and admiration. Adiós.

Dr S posts in good faith. As a consequence I’ve visited net places I would otherwise have avoided like the plague.

Considering how the internet reveals far more about the mind than polls (whether on exit or not and have been known to be wrong on more than one occasion – including getting the results of a British General Election wrong based on poll exit numbers) I think Jonny Foreigner can learn a lot without actually personally interviewing each individual in the entire world. The net has revealed to me just how racist people are. More so than moving in my little world on the ground.

Obama had/has an uphill struggle but I for one would help him if I were an American. As a Brit I want him in the White House rather than the other 2.

I believe Obama is running for President in good faith.

I find it interesting (make that depressing) that false accusations are a recurring theme in this thread, while several of the participants are more than willing to immediately see an anecdote or an analogy as a personal attack and start hurling epithets in return. Can’t we give each other any credit for good faith at all?

To answer your question I have not visited West Virginia, but then again that doesn’t stop me from feeling that the people there have all been branded racists even though some of them might well hold that title while others wouldn’t.

Why is it that we get so many non-Americans here who know little about the place, have visited little or none of it, and yet lecture us on the attributes of our own country and its various parts? And why is it that a media story in which a poll revealed that 20% of the voters in one state claimed that race was a factor in their voting decisions becomes “the people there have all (emphasis mine) been branded racists” by the same foreigner? Tell me, foreigner, do the schools in your country teach you that 20% equals “all”? If so, then perhaps we’ve found the root of our disagreement.

And how about

It was the media who divided up your population into camps of white and black, rich and poor, educated or not, good jobs, poor jobs., etc,

.

You jump on me for failing in a single word to make an analogy clear, then jump on me again by saying you won’t answer my interpretation of your words which is, simply, that the media caused all the racial problems in America. There are no real underlying grievances, are there foreigner?

As for all this happening 50+ years ago (your words), I’m 51. I remember these events vividly. I attended a segregated school until 1969, the fall after men landed on the moon. Other school systems didn’t desegregate unti lthe mid-70s. The university in my state didn’t admit ” negroes” until 1970, 38 years ago, I believe. That same university, today, is a place where black students rarely mix with the rest of the student body. Not a whole lot has changed.

So, why did you say 50+ years? With your deep understanding of the US, its regions, and US history, surely you know better? ‘-)

Michael:

I have heard your words (or words like them) since I was knee high to a cypress stump. Let me just recall a few:

“Yankees is just like us. They hate niggers as much as we do. They just don’t admit it.”

“I love niggers. I think everyone should own a couple.”

“I’m not prejudiced, but niggers is lazy. Everyone knows that.”

“You cain’t hurt a nigger by hittin’ him in the head. He ain’t got nothin’ but bone of there no ways.”

“People are pretty much the same ever’where. They all hate niggers.”

You just keep on believing that there is no such thing as cultural norms of behavior and thought, Michael. And keep on believing that these things don’t vary, ever, from place to place. You won’t get any supporters from people who actually research and/or read in the area of cultural anthropology, but that’s no matter, is it?

Opinion is all, even when it’s unread.

At least, that’s what I read.

Yes we will, you cannot stifle the discussion of a valid issue.

False accusations of racism and sexism dilute the truth and cause harm in the end.

Obama 08

My own personal experience in Appalachia has shown me that people there are no more or less racist (whether subtle or overt) in their reaction to me than in any other part of the country. I have also spent time in KY (though I never lived there), and found this to hold true there as well, for the most part. Appalachians don’t trust/like strangers – it isn’t about race

Obviously there is context cannot be addressed in one paragraph, but racism exists everywhere, and does to a degree that is (hopefully) unacceptable to everyone here. To single West Virginia out as particularly racist is absurd, especially when ’supported’ by the silly, superficial points offered by your original post.

Now To JS OBrien:
Your words as written:
You remind me of the kid I knew from the county where I grew up who, in the 9th grade or so, cold cocked another kid, beating him unconscious……………………………

It seems that your words to me mean that I remind you of a kid, whereas you could have stated that my words bring to mind a story about a kid. I did not twist your words but took them at face value as they were delivered.
To answer your question I have not visited West Virginia, but then again that doesn’t stop me from feeling that the people there have all been branded racists even though some of them might well hold that title while others wouldn’t. You can’t brand a whole state like that unless you also are willing to consider that states where 90+% of the black population are also considered voting on race only. Perhaps also many people who live in WV also have the upbringing or standards that when asked a question you answer truthfully whether the answer is popular or not. What about the people of Pennsylvania who were also called closet racists as well? What label are you going to pin on them? Your mention of the ills of racism over 50+ years ago in relation to my mention of the media race today do not relate at all so I am not even going to address them. The media has made this a campaign of division between the democratic party and have fuelled the fires at every chance they can, in my opinion once again. You cannot have the facts of Obama supporters discussed as mainly black, young, well educated, more affluent, white collar workers, and elite, while having the Hillary supporters branded (and I use that term specifically) as white, older, poor, blue collar working class, less educated, racist. If your party plans on being successful, then please think of what one group of supporters have been classed as because they don’t support the other candidate who happens to be black. Perhaps the fact that Obama is black has nothing at all to do with the decisions of some but the fact that people are being put into a nasty little box as poor dumb and racist that may turn them off enough to vote McCain or stay home. I am sure that the over 17,000,000 who have voted for Hillary are not all closet racists nor should Obama’s race be the only factor taken into account for people not choosing him as their chosen candidate. I still feel you can not heel or cure the ills of the past by using them falsely in a political campaign. I will be extremely honest in saying as a white senior citizen myself, that if I were a Hillary supporter being classed generally as a poor dumb closet racist because I didn’t choose Obama, then I personally would not vote for him now. But then perhaps my decision would be based on my age and life experiences as wll as the decisions of what I would consider the qualifications for a President to be.
A dialogue on race and even religion is sorely needed in today’s environment but how it will be approached has to be weighed very seriously as to whether the outcome will be more successful than more dismal.