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	<title>Comments on: The Weekly Carboholic: Green construction does not always mean &#8220;natural&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/</link>
	<description>Think.  It ain&#039;t illegal yet...</description>
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		<title>By: Frank, Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-59553</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank, Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 10:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-59553</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that’s bad, Judy. The ACS story talked some about foams that were expanded with air and with adhesives that didn’t release volatile organic compounds  in order to make the chemical products less likely to sicken people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that’s bad, Judy. The ACS story talked some about foams that were expanded with air and with adhesives that didn’t release volatile organic compounds  in order to make the chemical products less likely to sicken people.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank C.</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-59049</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-59049</guid>
		<description>Brian, I&#039;ll dig through my literature and send you a link. Give me a day or two.
Thanksgiving comes first.  PARTY!!!
fcc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, I&#8217;ll dig through my literature and send you a link. Give me a day or two.<br />
Thanksgiving comes first.  PARTY!!!<br />
fcc</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-59010</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 16:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-59010</guid>
		<description>Frank, thanks for the information.  Those products sound really interesting, especially the vacuum tube solar array.  I may have to dig that one up and figure out how it works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank, thanks for the information.  Those products sound really interesting, especially the vacuum tube solar array.  I may have to dig that one up and figure out how it works.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-59007</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-59007</guid>
		<description>All good news, Frank, but yes it is sad that we (as a nation) are being left behind in the move towards doing things right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All good news, Frank, but yes it is sad that we (as a nation) are being left behind in the move towards doing things right.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank, Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-59006</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank, Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 08:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-59006</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that’s bad, Judy. The ACS story talked some about foams that were expanded with air and with adhesives that didn’t release volatile organic compounds (or rather emitted a lot fewer of them) in order to make the chemical products less likely to sicken people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that’s bad, Judy. The ACS story talked some about foams that were expanded with air and with adhesives that didn’t release volatile organic compounds (or rather emitted a lot fewer of them) in order to make the chemical products less likely to sicken people.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank C.</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-58987</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-58987</guid>
		<description>I attended the Green Build conferance and show here in Boston last week.
While primary efforts  are directed towards commercial building, there is much to be hopeful about in the residential market.

Highlights:
95% efficient wall mount boilers (QHT, Veissman, Buderus, NTI)
Tankless hot water heaters are now commodity products!
Metal standing seam roofing systems with peel and stick photovoltaic cells, anyone?
Vacuum tube solar hot water arrays. One 10 tube array per person, $1200 ea, available at your plumbing jobber now....
1.2 gallon flush toilets with full or half flush options.
Grey water heat recovery and recyling.
Low voc flooring and fabrics.

It&#039;s getting better all the time and prices are coming down.

Sadly, it&#039;s worth noting that most of these technologies have their origin in Europe. US companies (usually small ones) are catching on, but too damn slowly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I attended the Green Build conferance and show here in Boston last week.<br />
While primary efforts  are directed towards commercial building, there is much to be hopeful about in the residential market.</p>
<p>Highlights:<br />
95% efficient wall mount boilers (QHT, Veissman, Buderus, NTI)<br />
Tankless hot water heaters are now commodity products!<br />
Metal standing seam roofing systems with peel and stick photovoltaic cells, anyone?<br />
Vacuum tube solar hot water arrays. One 10 tube array per person, $1200 ea, available at your plumbing jobber now&#8230;.<br />
1.2 gallon flush toilets with full or half flush options.<br />
Grey water heat recovery and recyling.<br />
Low voc flooring and fabrics.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s getting better all the time and prices are coming down.</p>
<p>Sadly, it&#8217;s worth noting that most of these technologies have their origin in Europe. US companies (usually small ones) are catching on, but too damn slowly.</p>
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		<title>By: Judy Cross</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-58955</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy Cross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-58955</guid>
		<description>Carpenter ants love nesting in  polystyrene riigid insulation.  I used it under a metal roof  much to my regret.  A friend used it to insulate his well cover and found the same thing.  I don&#039;t know about other types .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carpenter ants love nesting in  polystyrene riigid insulation.  I used it under a metal roof  much to my regret.  A friend used it to insulate his well cover and found the same thing.  I don&#8217;t know about other types .</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-58942</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-58942</guid>
		<description>Frank,

It&#039;s a shame, but too often true...though my boss like to tell the story of building his house during the tail end of the first energy crises.  He chose 2x6 construction and T-111.  When he later added vinyl siding, he put another layer of rigid insulation outside the T-111, Tyvek, and then the siding.  Every time we talk about &quot;green&quot; or building he chuckles to himself, because even in a winter wonderland, his furnace rarely runs.

Perhaps the difference is between people who plan to live in a house for a while and people who plan to live the majority of their life in a house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a shame, but too often true&#8230;though my boss like to tell the story of building his house during the tail end of the first energy crises.  He chose 2&#215;6 construction and T-111.  When he later added vinyl siding, he put another layer of rigid insulation outside the T-111, Tyvek, and then the siding.  Every time we talk about &#8220;green&#8221; or building he chuckles to himself, because even in a winter wonderland, his furnace rarely runs.</p>
<p>Perhaps the difference is between people who plan to live in a house for a while and people who plan to live the majority of their life in a house.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank C.</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-58931</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-58931</guid>
		<description>Not to mention the cost of foam is huge, easily 5x the cost of fiberglass batt here in N.E.
I&#039;ve tried for years to get clients to use it and it&#039;s been a complete fail.

I&#039;m sorry, but home owners are not willing to make investments for the benefit for future occupants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to mention the cost of foam is huge, easily 5x the cost of fiberglass batt here in N.E.<br />
I&#8217;ve tried for years to get clients to use it and it&#8217;s been a complete fail.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, but home owners are not willing to make investments for the benefit for future occupants.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-58925</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-58925</guid>
		<description>I think that it should be noted that B.C. is a pretty extreme environment when it comes to &quot;damp&quot;.  After you&#039;ve lived through a literal 40 days and 40 nights of rain, you see damp a little differently...when fungicide is an everyday conversation subject.

The defining of green is similar to this situation.  The spray on foam is probably not the best idea for certain applications (unless it doesn&#039;t have the flame retardants)...but greening our lifestyles is going to be done through applying different solutions for different situations.  No silver bullets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that it should be noted that B.C. is a pretty extreme environment when it comes to &#8220;damp&#8221;.  After you&#8217;ve lived through a literal 40 days and 40 nights of rain, you see damp a little differently&#8230;when fungicide is an everyday conversation subject.</p>
<p>The defining of green is similar to this situation.  The spray on foam is probably not the best idea for certain applications (unless it doesn&#8217;t have the flame retardants)&#8230;but greening our lifestyles is going to be done through applying different solutions for different situations.  No silver bullets.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-58922</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-58922</guid>
		<description>Thanks.  It doesn&#039;t support what you said specifically (about polyurethane breaking down in cold and damp climates to release toluene), but it does support a general VOC problem that is important.  The gist of that article suggests that the problem isn&#039;t necessarily the polyurethane, but rather the flame retardants that are included in it, and that makes a lot of sense.

Do your old clients have anything to say on this one, Slammy, if you&#039;re still in touch with them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks.  It doesn&#8217;t support what you said specifically (about polyurethane breaking down in cold and damp climates to release toluene), but it does support a general VOC problem that is important.  The gist of that article suggests that the problem isn&#8217;t necessarily the polyurethane, but rather the flame retardants that are included in it, and that makes a lot of sense.</p>
<p>Do your old clients have anything to say on this one, Slammy, if you&#8217;re still in touch with them?</p>
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		<title>By: Judy Cross</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-58916</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy Cross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-58916</guid>
		<description>http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc/ask/insulation</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc/ask/insulation" rel="nofollow">http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc/ask/insulation</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Slammy</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-58880</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Slammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 04:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-58880</guid>
		<description>Yes, I&#039;d like a source, too. Not all foams are the same and this is something that my clients had never heard of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I&#8217;d like a source, too. Not all foams are the same and this is something that my clients had never heard of.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-58879</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-58879</guid>
		<description>Ok, yeah, that&#039;s bad, Judy.  The ACS story talked some about foams that were expanded with air and with adhesives that didn&#039;t release volatile organic compounds (or rather emitted a lot fewer of them) in order to make the chemical products less likely to sicken people.

Do you have a source for that?  It&#039;d be nice to know if it was the polyurethane itself or the glues that were used to adhere it to buildings that were the source of the toluene.  It would frankly suck for cold and damp areas to have to avoid the best materials available due to chemical decomposition problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, yeah, that&#8217;s bad, Judy.  The ACS story talked some about foams that were expanded with air and with adhesives that didn&#8217;t release volatile organic compounds (or rather emitted a lot fewer of them) in order to make the chemical products less likely to sicken people.</p>
<p>Do you have a source for that?  It&#8217;d be nice to know if it was the polyurethane itself or the glues that were used to adhere it to buildings that were the source of the toluene.  It would frankly suck for cold and damp areas to have to avoid the best materials available due to chemical decomposition problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Judy Cross</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-58877</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy Cross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 02:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-58877</guid>
		<description>Polurethane foam was quite the scandal here in Canada because it breaks down in damp climates and releases toluene.  They called it &quot;sick building syndrome&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Polurethane foam was quite the scandal here in Canada because it breaks down in damp climates and releases toluene.  They called it &#8220;sick building syndrome&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-58872</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-58872</guid>
		<description>Studs are a notorious weak spot in energy efficient building.  Not only do they have a lower R value than the insulation between them, they create bridges from one side to the other.  A layer of rigid insulation helps, as does using 2x6&#039;s instead of 4&#039;s...but neither option really solves the fundamental problem.

I guess it means that you first have to define &quot;green&quot; and work from there, at least until we find some ways to make insulation products from more renewable sources.  It is possible to have both, but that means using non-traditional building techniques like straw-bale and log end construction.  (Simply flipping wood over so that its grain - and hence cellular structure - runs parallel to the Earth rather than perpendicular changes its insulating ability greatly.)   And if you really, really want to stay warm/cool and be material green at the same time, then berm it.

Though, as always, i&#039;m disappointed that i can&#039;t have it all.

I&#039;d like to see natural gas/electric hybrid trucks.  And i&#039;ve always wondered why Detroit didn&#039;t see the beauty of putting hybrid power trains into their behemoths: the fuel savings would be far more noticeable at that scale and truck buyers have a torque fetish that is addressed by the electric motor.  I&#039;m sure that they have a good reason, Detroit always does...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Studs are a notorious weak spot in energy efficient building.  Not only do they have a lower R value than the insulation between them, they create bridges from one side to the other.  A layer of rigid insulation helps, as does using 2&#215;6&#8242;s instead of 4&#8242;s&#8230;but neither option really solves the fundamental problem.</p>
<p>I guess it means that you first have to define &#8220;green&#8221; and work from there, at least until we find some ways to make insulation products from more renewable sources.  It is possible to have both, but that means using non-traditional building techniques like straw-bale and log end construction.  (Simply flipping wood over so that its grain &#8211; and hence cellular structure &#8211; runs parallel to the Earth rather than perpendicular changes its insulating ability greatly.)   And if you really, really want to stay warm/cool and be material green at the same time, then berm it.</p>
<p>Though, as always, i&#8217;m disappointed that i can&#8217;t have it all.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see natural gas/electric hybrid trucks.  And i&#8217;ve always wondered why Detroit didn&#8217;t see the beauty of putting hybrid power trains into their behemoths: the fuel savings would be far more noticeable at that scale and truck buyers have a torque fetish that is addressed by the electric motor.  I&#8217;m sure that they have a good reason, Detroit always does&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Slammy</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/11/19/the-weekly-carboholic-green-construction/comment-page-1/#comment-58836</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Slammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=5511#comment-58836</guid>
		<description>For a good example of how green and natural aren&#039;t always the same thing, have a look at an old client of mine, &lt;a href=&quot;http://ncfi.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NCFI&lt;/a&gt; (in fact, I wrote a good bit of the copy on their Web site). They make spray polyurethane foam insulation (among other things), and that&#039;s quite simply the best you can get. If you installed SPF in every new American home, the annual energy savings would be astronomical.

But it&#039;s a chemical process. A fairly inert one, yes, but still, they&#039;re not making the stuff out of tree bark and bunny fur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a good example of how green and natural aren&#8217;t always the same thing, have a look at an old client of mine, <a href="http://ncfi.com/" rel="nofollow">NCFI</a> (in fact, I wrote a good bit of the copy on their Web site). They make spray polyurethane foam insulation (among other things), and that&#8217;s quite simply the best you can get. If you installed SPF in every new American home, the annual energy savings would be astronomical.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s a chemical process. A fairly inert one, yes, but still, they&#8217;re not making the stuff out of tree bark and bunny fur.</p>
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