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	<title>Comments on: U.S. carbon emissions 20% greater than official estimates (corrected)</title>
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	<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/</link>
	<description>Think.  It ain&#039;t illegal yet...</description>
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		<title>By: Feminist Peace Network &#187; Requiem For The Earth&#8211;A Litany Of Eco-Horrors</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-65333</link>
		<dc:creator>Feminist Peace Network &#187; Requiem For The Earth&#8211;A Litany Of Eco-Horrors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-65333</guid>
		<description>[...] Antarctica and Greenland. The IPCC forecast therefore tended to underestimate forthcoming changes. The role of the United States in climate disruption is far greater than most people realize. Not only does the U.S. emit more carbon dioxide (CO2) than any other nation besides China, not [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Antarctica and Greenland. The IPCC forecast therefore tended to underestimate forthcoming changes. The role of the United States in climate disruption is far greater than most people realize. Not only does the U.S. emit more carbon dioxide (CO2) than any other nation besides China, not [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Climate Progress &#187; Blog Archive &#187; U.S. carbon dioxide emissions growth during Bush years 300% higher than official estimates</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-64854</link>
		<dc:creator>Climate Progress &#187; Blog Archive &#187; U.S. carbon dioxide emissions growth during Bush years 300% higher than official estimates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-64854</guid>
		<description>[...] blogger today is Brian Angliss, an electrical engineer who blogs at Scholars and Rogues, where this terrific post was first published. What his analysis shows is that because of the exploding trade deficit during the Bush Presidency, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] blogger today is Brian Angliss, an electrical engineer who blogs at Scholars and Rogues, where this terrific post was first published. What his analysis shows is that because of the exploding trade deficit during the Bush Presidency, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scholars and Rogues &#187; U.S. offshores 15% of its carbon emissions, not 20% as originally stated</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-61990</link>
		<dc:creator>Scholars and Rogues &#187; U.S. offshores 15% of its carbon emissions, not 20% as originally stated</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 05:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-61990</guid>
		<description>[...] environment, foreign policy, global warming [ Comments: none ]    Two weeks ago, I published a post that claimed that the U.S. had offshored just over 18% of its carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions. I was wrong - it&#8217;s only 15%. The problem was in how I calculated the CO2 emissions of other [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] environment, foreign policy, global warming [ Comments: none ]    Two weeks ago, I published a post that claimed that the U.S. had offshored just over 18% of its carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions. I was wrong &#8211; it&#8217;s only 15%. The problem was in how I calculated the CO2 emissions of other [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-61462</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 05:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-61462</guid>
		<description>Saint, I&#039;ve corrected the first error and given you the benefit of the doubt on the second with a correction factor for current to real dollars.  The numbers I generated do not agree with yours - a reduction from 20.7% to 18.3% (not 12% as you claim) for MER (Figure 4) and about 10% for PPP (Figure 5).

Figure 4 shows that actual CO2 intensity is flat from 2001 to 2005 to 2 significant digits but does fall again in 2006 - not as bad as the erroneous data, but still bad.  You are correct for the PPP data shown in Figure 5, although 2005 to 2006 shows a noticeable flattening that makes me curious what will happen when I integrate 2007 EIA data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saint, I&#8217;ve corrected the first error and given you the benefit of the doubt on the second with a correction factor for current to real dollars.  The numbers I generated do not agree with yours &#8211; a reduction from 20.7% to 18.3% (not 12% as you claim) for MER (Figure 4) and about 10% for PPP (Figure 5).</p>
<p>Figure 4 shows that actual CO2 intensity is flat from 2001 to 2005 to 2 significant digits but does fall again in 2006 &#8211; not as bad as the erroneous data, but still bad.  You are correct for the PPP data shown in Figure 5, although 2005 to 2006 shows a noticeable flattening that makes me curious what will happen when I integrate 2007 EIA data.</p>
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		<title>By: Saint</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-61415</link>
		<dc:creator>Saint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 00:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-61415</guid>
		<description>There are two methodological issues with this analysis.

First, the economic value attributed to the imports is missing from the U.S. intensity calculation. If we’re responsible for the emissions, we should take credit for the economic value associated with them.

Second, the import and export trade figures are in current dollars. The EIA international intensity numbers are calculated using real (2000) dollars. Pegging the import and export dollar amounts to 2000 makes a significant difference.

When you convert the import/export trade figures to 2000 dollars and include the economic activity from the net imports, the amount of CO2 “outsourced” from the U.S. winds up at about 12% in 2006.

A third issue is whether to use the EIA intensity figures based on market exchange rates (what you used) or purchasing power parity. If you use EIA’s international intensity figures based on PPP instead of MER, the amount outsourced falls to just 7% in 2006.

And I should add that, whether using either the MER or PPP data, when you put the import/export figures into constant dollars and include the economic activity data in the intensity calculations, what you call the “actual” CO2 intensity of the U.S. economy, broadly defined, does not deteriorate after 2001, but continues to improve.


(BTW, the trade stats are avaialable at: TradeStats Express - National Trade Data http://tse.export.gov/MapFrameset.aspx?MapPage=NTDMapDisplay.aspx&amp;UniqueURL=xfgli1urj3gemhmns0ufcz55-2009-1-26-13-42-34. When you go to the download center, it explains that the data are actual values in current U.S. dollars.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are two methodological issues with this analysis.</p>
<p>First, the economic value attributed to the imports is missing from the U.S. intensity calculation. If we’re responsible for the emissions, we should take credit for the economic value associated with them.</p>
<p>Second, the import and export trade figures are in current dollars. The EIA international intensity numbers are calculated using real (2000) dollars. Pegging the import and export dollar amounts to 2000 makes a significant difference.</p>
<p>When you convert the import/export trade figures to 2000 dollars and include the economic activity from the net imports, the amount of CO2 “outsourced” from the U.S. winds up at about 12% in 2006.</p>
<p>A third issue is whether to use the EIA intensity figures based on market exchange rates (what you used) or purchasing power parity. If you use EIA’s international intensity figures based on PPP instead of MER, the amount outsourced falls to just 7% in 2006.</p>
<p>And I should add that, whether using either the MER or PPP data, when you put the import/export figures into constant dollars and include the economic activity data in the intensity calculations, what you call the “actual” CO2 intensity of the U.S. economy, broadly defined, does not deteriorate after 2001, but continues to improve.</p>
<p>(BTW, the trade stats are avaialable at: TradeStats Express &#8211; National Trade Data <a href="http://tse.export.gov/MapFrameset.aspx?MapPage=NTDMapDisplay.aspx&#038;UniqueURL=xfgli1urj3gemhmns0ufcz55-2009-1-26-13-42-34" rel="nofollow">http://tse.export.gov/MapFrameset.aspx?MapPage=NTDMapDisplay.aspx&#038;UniqueURL=xfgli1urj3gemhmns0ufcz55-2009-1-26-13-42-34</a>. When you go to the download center, it explains that the data are actual values in current U.S. dollars.)</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-61185</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-61185</guid>
		<description>I believe that the import figures are in adjusted 2000 dollars, although I can&#039;t find again where I found that information.  I&#039;ll post again with a link one way or another.

You are correct about the error in my GDP numbers.  Given that imports are about 1% of GDP, the offshored GDP not being included in my numbers means that my intensity values have a 1% error.  That&#039;s not enough to change the overall conclusion in any significant way, though.

As I try to be accurate and did mess up, I&#039;ll update the numbers and post an update and explanation of the update.  I&#039;ll also post a PPP adjusted rate graph, just to see how it works out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that the import figures are in adjusted 2000 dollars, although I can&#8217;t find again where I found that information.  I&#8217;ll post again with a link one way or another.</p>
<p>You are correct about the error in my GDP numbers.  Given that imports are about 1% of GDP, the offshored GDP not being included in my numbers means that my intensity values have a 1% error.  That&#8217;s not enough to change the overall conclusion in any significant way, though.</p>
<p>As I try to be accurate and did mess up, I&#8217;ll update the numbers and post an update and explanation of the update.  I&#8217;ll also post a PPP adjusted rate graph, just to see how it works out.</p>
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		<title>By: Saint</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-61150</link>
		<dc:creator>Saint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-61150</guid>
		<description>Are the import figures also in adjusted 2000 dollars, or are they in nominal dollars? It&#039;s not clear from the spreadsheet (nor is it clear where you got these import figures).

In calculating the emissions intensity numbers, it seems you increased U.S. emissions by the amount &quot;offshored,&quot; but you did not increase U.S. GDP by the amount &quot;offshored.&quot; That&#039;s analytically unsound. Why should the U.S. be attributed the offshored emisssions but not the offshored economic growth that gave rise to them? This means that the real emissions intensity of the U.S., as you define it, is overstated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are the import figures also in adjusted 2000 dollars, or are they in nominal dollars? It&#8217;s not clear from the spreadsheet (nor is it clear where you got these import figures).</p>
<p>In calculating the emissions intensity numbers, it seems you increased U.S. emissions by the amount &#8220;offshored,&#8221; but you did not increase U.S. GDP by the amount &#8220;offshored.&#8221; That&#8217;s analytically unsound. Why should the U.S. be attributed the offshored emisssions but not the offshored economic growth that gave rise to them? This means that the real emissions intensity of the U.S., as you define it, is overstated.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Waldman</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-61078</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Waldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-61078</guid>
		<description>True -- there was a similar article in either FT or the Economist about 6-10 months ago regarding this very point - except it was between China and the EU.  China made this very point saying 20 (or 30 or whatever %) of its emissions were caused by EU consumers and so was EU pollution.  The guy from Brussels responded and said &quot;yep and its our jobs as well&quot;

That said -- the global slowdown will also reduce China&#039;s pollution dramatically. Factories are being abandon (www.ft.com) and contrary to reports from China&#039;s government regarding growth the economy is actually shrinking -- see their Electricity usage for Nov (down 9% or so, again FT.com)  December will likely be much worse.

The US and UK have both dropped the number of miles driven by 5-6 % YoY and transporation is about 1/3 of Carbon production.  Builders, Manufacturers, Railway and Truckers in the US have seen tremendous drops in demand, which corresponds to CO2 output.

So it looks like &quot;Peak Credit&quot; will buy us a bit of time -probably not much though</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True &#8212; there was a similar article in either FT or the Economist about 6-10 months ago regarding this very point &#8211; except it was between China and the EU.  China made this very point saying 20 (or 30 or whatever %) of its emissions were caused by EU consumers and so was EU pollution.  The guy from Brussels responded and said &#8220;yep and its our jobs as well&#8221;</p>
<p>That said &#8212; the global slowdown will also reduce China&#8217;s pollution dramatically. Factories are being abandon (www.ft.com) and contrary to reports from China&#8217;s government regarding growth the economy is actually shrinking &#8212; see their Electricity usage for Nov (down 9% or so, again FT.com)  December will likely be much worse.</p>
<p>The US and UK have both dropped the number of miles driven by 5-6 % YoY and transporation is about 1/3 of Carbon production.  Builders, Manufacturers, Railway and Truckers in the US have seen tremendous drops in demand, which corresponds to CO2 output.</p>
<p>So it looks like &#8220;Peak Credit&#8221; will buy us a bit of time -probably not much though</p>
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		<title>By: WarmingBulletin.Org</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-60997</link>
		<dc:creator>WarmingBulletin.Org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-60997</guid>
		<description>[...] combined products and services (gross domestic product, or GDP) of a nation can also be estimated. Scholars and Rogues  What Bush action can Obama undo next? Emissions standards  State leaders and environmentalists are [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] combined products and services (gross domestic product, or GDP) of a nation can also be estimated. Scholars and Rogues  What Bush action can Obama undo next? Emissions standards  State leaders and environmentalists are [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-60992</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-60992</guid>
		<description>But, but...China needs to clean up its act before we do. (or so the saying goes)

Excellent work, Brian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But, but&#8230;China needs to clean up its act before we do. (or so the saying goes)</p>
<p>Excellent work, Brian.</p>
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		<title>By: Now for the Straight Talk.. &#171; Busto&#8217;s Bizblog</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-60985</link>
		<dc:creator>Now for the Straight Talk.. &#171; Busto&#8217;s Bizblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-60985</guid>
		<description>[...] The whole story is with Angliss. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The whole story is with Angliss. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Savantster</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-60981</link>
		<dc:creator>Savantster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-60981</guid>
		<description>&quot;After all, wouldn’t you want your neighbor to help rake up all the leaves he blew from his yard into yours?&quot;

as all libruls, you&#039;re asking the wrong question.. The question is, &quot;didn&#039;t you blow your leaves into your neighbor&#039;s yard in the middle of the night so you could avoid having to actually dispose of them properly?&quot;.

You are coming from a position of &quot;do the right thing first&quot;.. that&#039;s not a right-wing premise.. &quot;what&#039;s best for ME, personally, regardless of the impact to others&quot; is the right-wing premise. Blowing that CO2 into the air while profiting more, regardless of where it gets created was the &quot;idea&quot;, not an unwanted consequence. Therefore, saying we should help clean up our own mess brings you full circle to why they started &quot;blowing leaves in the middle of the night&quot; in the first place.

If you were in their inner circles, they would say &quot;SHHHHHHH!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;After all, wouldn’t you want your neighbor to help rake up all the leaves he blew from his yard into yours?&#8221;</p>
<p>as all libruls, you&#8217;re asking the wrong question.. The question is, &#8220;didn&#8217;t you blow your leaves into your neighbor&#8217;s yard in the middle of the night so you could avoid having to actually dispose of them properly?&#8221;.</p>
<p>You are coming from a position of &#8220;do the right thing first&#8221;.. that&#8217;s not a right-wing premise.. &#8220;what&#8217;s best for ME, personally, regardless of the impact to others&#8221; is the right-wing premise. Blowing that CO2 into the air while profiting more, regardless of where it gets created was the &#8220;idea&#8221;, not an unwanted consequence. Therefore, saying we should help clean up our own mess brings you full circle to why they started &#8220;blowing leaves in the middle of the night&#8221; in the first place.</p>
<p>If you were in their inner circles, they would say &#8220;SHHHHHHH!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-60973</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-60973</guid>
		<description>Thanks.

I did not use PPP-adjusted GDP, only indexed it to 2000 dollars.  I have no idea what adjusting the GDP numbers for purchasing power parity would do, but it would be a relatively easy thing to do (I think...).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>I did not use PPP-adjusted GDP, only indexed it to 2000 dollars.  I have no idea what adjusting the GDP numbers for purchasing power parity would do, but it would be a relatively easy thing to do (I think&#8230;).</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Baer</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/22/us-carbon-emissions-20-greater-than-official-estimates/comment-page-1/#comment-60972</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Baer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=6949#comment-60972</guid>
		<description>Nice work, on a topic which we (collaborators in the Greenhouse Development Rights project) are very keenly interested in. 

I can&#039;t tell from this whether you used PPP-based GDP figures or not - what choice did you make?

Cheers,

--Paul</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice work, on a topic which we (collaborators in the Greenhouse Development Rights project) are very keenly interested in. </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t tell from this whether you used PPP-based GDP figures or not &#8211; what choice did you make?</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>&#8211;Paul</p>
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