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	<title>Comments on: Science and faith: a reply to Martin Bosworth</title>
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	<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/05/03/science-and-faith-a-reply-to-martin-bosworth/</link>
	<description>Think.  It ain&#039;t illegal yet...</description>
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		<title>By: Man Of Science, Man Of Faith II: Building Better Myths &#187; Boztopia.com</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/05/03/science-and-faith-a-reply-to-martin-bosworth/comment-page-1/#comment-67353</link>
		<dc:creator>Man Of Science, Man Of Faith II: Building Better Myths &#187; Boztopia.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=8979#comment-67353</guid>
		<description>[...] Man of Faith&#8221; post, so you might want to read that first. This is also a response of sorts to Sam Smith&#8217;s response to my original post. Told you I&#8217;d get back to you, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Man of Faith&#8221; post, so you might want to read that first. This is also a response of sorts to Sam Smith&#8217;s response to my original post. Told you I&#8217;d get back to you, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: vet</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/05/03/science-and-faith-a-reply-to-martin-bosworth/comment-page-1/#comment-65804</link>
		<dc:creator>vet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 04:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=8979#comment-65804</guid>
		<description>You are engaging in your own examples of false equivalence here.

Martin Bosworth writes: &quot;I don’t find myself persuaded by people like Dawkins or Hitchens any more than I do their opposite numbers among the imams, bishops, etc&quot;. *You* then interpret the second half of that relation as &quot;fundamentalist religious types&quot;.

But I&#039;d say that the &quot;opposite numbers [to Dawkins] among imams, bishops etc&quot; are far from &quot;fundamentalists&quot; - they&#039;re very thoughtful, often sophisticated scholars, in the mould of Rowan Williams or Karen Armstrong, who will take a holy text as a starting point, not a final word, and do whatever is necessary to adapt it to meet contrary evidence or argument.

Precognitive dreams &quot;may be a sampling fallacy at work&quot; - then again, *there may not*. You make a good argument that there *may* be such a fallacy - but then you proceed to treat the case as proven, which it isn&#039;t.

&quot;Something is going on, that something is marvelous, and that something often escapes rational explanation&quot; - here, I think you&#039;re maybe doing a disservice to the scope and possibilities of &quot;rational explanation&quot;. If you read Douglas Hofstadter&#039;s &quot;I am a Strange Loop&quot;, you&#039;ll find he provides perfectly rational (physical, mathematical) explanations for the existence of something you could quite plausibly call &quot;the soul&quot; - something that does indeed exist independently of the body, and may well outlive it for an indefinite period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are engaging in your own examples of false equivalence here.</p>
<p>Martin Bosworth writes: &#8220;I don’t find myself persuaded by people like Dawkins or Hitchens any more than I do their opposite numbers among the imams, bishops, etc&#8221;. *You* then interpret the second half of that relation as &#8220;fundamentalist religious types&#8221;.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;d say that the &#8220;opposite numbers [to Dawkins] among imams, bishops etc&#8221; are far from &#8220;fundamentalists&#8221; &#8211; they&#8217;re very thoughtful, often sophisticated scholars, in the mould of Rowan Williams or Karen Armstrong, who will take a holy text as a starting point, not a final word, and do whatever is necessary to adapt it to meet contrary evidence or argument.</p>
<p>Precognitive dreams &#8220;may be a sampling fallacy at work&#8221; &#8211; then again, *there may not*. You make a good argument that there *may* be such a fallacy &#8211; but then you proceed to treat the case as proven, which it isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>&#8220;Something is going on, that something is marvelous, and that something often escapes rational explanation&#8221; &#8211; here, I think you&#8217;re maybe doing a disservice to the scope and possibilities of &#8220;rational explanation&#8221;. If you read Douglas Hofstadter&#8217;s &#8220;I am a Strange Loop&#8221;, you&#8217;ll find he provides perfectly rational (physical, mathematical) explanations for the existence of something you could quite plausibly call &#8220;the soul&#8221; &#8211; something that does indeed exist independently of the body, and may well outlive it for an indefinite period.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann Ivins</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/05/03/science-and-faith-a-reply-to-martin-bosworth/comment-page-1/#comment-65721</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann Ivins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 17:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=8979#comment-65721</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;My response is that the unexplained isn’t necessarily unexplainable.&lt;/i&gt;

Bingo. And the probability is that we won&#039;t ever get all of those explanations, which seems to scare the shit out of (or the Jesus into) most people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>My response is that the unexplained isn’t necessarily unexplainable.</i></p>
<p>Bingo. And the probability is that we won&#8217;t ever get all of those explanations, which seems to scare the shit out of (or the Jesus into) most people.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/05/03/science-and-faith-a-reply-to-martin-bosworth/comment-page-1/#comment-65718</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 16:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=8979#comment-65718</guid>
		<description>And cognitive illusions, while making for a nice parallel, don&#039;t segue well into discussions over ideological perception. It&#039;s a big generalization to make.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And cognitive illusions, while making for a nice parallel, don&#8217;t segue well into discussions over ideological perception. It&#8217;s a big generalization to make.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/05/03/science-and-faith-a-reply-to-martin-bosworth/comment-page-1/#comment-65716</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 16:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=8979#comment-65716</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d hesitate to claim Buckley would say Rush is right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d hesitate to claim Buckley would say Rush is right.</p>
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		<title>By: jeff watson</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/05/03/science-and-faith-a-reply-to-martin-bosworth/comment-page-1/#comment-65696</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 01:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=8979#comment-65696</guid>
		<description>Regarding Limbaugh and Olbermann, who&#039;s right and who&#039;s wrong is a matter of the lens one sees life through. William F. Buckley Jr. would have said Olbermann was wrong and Rush was right, and Buckley was no slouch in the intelligence department.  

The picture shown in my link gives a perfect example of the lens of life, the filter, and either image you see is correct, and neither is wrong.

http://masteroftheuniverse.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/perspective-and-mental-filters/

Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Limbaugh and Olbermann, who&#8217;s right and who&#8217;s wrong is a matter of the lens one sees life through. William F. Buckley Jr. would have said Olbermann was wrong and Rush was right, and Buckley was no slouch in the intelligence department.  </p>
<p>The picture shown in my link gives a perfect example of the lens of life, the filter, and either image you see is correct, and neither is wrong.</p>
<p><a href="http://masteroftheuniverse.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/perspective-and-mental-filters/" rel="nofollow">http://masteroftheuniverse.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/perspective-and-mental-filters/</a></p>
<p>Jeff</p>
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