Comments on: Business: when goals attack! http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/05/14/business-when-goals-attack/ Think. It ain't illegal yet... Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:48:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Dr. Slammy http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/05/14/business-when-goals-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-66004 Dr. Slammy Sat, 16 May 2009 20:02:34 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=9160#comment-66004 Jeff: Thanks for the Cowen rec. I'm not 100% sure what Levitt's data prove and what they suggest and what they merely open up for conjecture. He's writing for a popular audience, which mitigates against a lot of scientific depth. Not only that, this is economic analysis, which may be statistical, but it's hardly <em>science</em>. The data presented are certainly in accord with his conclusions, although that's hardly definitive. I think his analysis on other subjects (like the cheating teachers, which I'd bet my life on being accurate, and the sumo case) is so strong that it lends credibility to his speculations elsewhere - for better or worse. BTW, I used to know Dubner a little. He was in a band called The Right Profile with a guy named Jeff Foster - see today's SVR for more on where he is these days. RP was fucking amazing - one of the two or three best bands I've ever seen that didn't "make it." Jeff: Thanks for the Cowen rec.

I’m not 100% sure what Levitt’s data prove and what they suggest and what they merely open up for conjecture. He’s writing for a popular audience, which mitigates against a lot of scientific depth. Not only that, this is economic analysis, which may be statistical, but it’s hardly science. The data presented are certainly in accord with his conclusions, although that’s hardly definitive.

I think his analysis on other subjects (like the cheating teachers, which I’d bet my life on being accurate, and the sumo case) is so strong that it lends credibility to his speculations elsewhere – for better or worse.

BTW, I used to know Dubner a little. He was in a band called The Right Profile with a guy named Jeff Foster – see today’s SVR for more on where he is these days. RP was fucking amazing – one of the two or three best bands I’ve ever seen that didn’t “make it.”

]]> By: Dr. Slammy http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/05/14/business-when-goals-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-66003 Dr. Slammy Sat, 16 May 2009 18:01:15 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=9160#comment-66003 There's going to be a follow-up to this post when I get the time. The conclusion won't surprise you - the key has a lot to do with the intelligence and sophistication of those in charge. All the formulae in the world can't save a dim manager, and goals are like numbers in that they become crutches for those who aren't very talented. BTW, I'd be eternally grateful if you'd also post this comment over at the Exchange. There’s going to be a follow-up to this post when I get the time. The conclusion won’t surprise you – the key has a lot to do with the intelligence and sophistication of those in charge. All the formulae in the world can’t save a dim manager, and goals are like numbers in that they become crutches for those who aren’t very talented.

BTW, I’d be eternally grateful if you’d also post this comment over at the Exchange.

]]> By: JS OBrien http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/05/14/business-when-goals-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-66001 JS OBrien Sat, 16 May 2009 17:55:32 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=9160#comment-66001 Nice take on this, Sam. I don't agree much with the recipe for fixing goal-setting, though. God knows how many design and/or training sessions I've run on goal-setting that were designed specifically to avoid mistakes like these. In the end, the same mistakes were being made over and over and over anyway. My recipe for fixing the issue would be setting up dynamic feedback loops to find and fix the bad goals as they need to be fixed. Nice take on this, Sam. I don’t agree much with the recipe for fixing goal-setting, though. God knows how many design and/or training sessions I’ve run on goal-setting that were designed specifically to avoid mistakes like these. In the end, the same mistakes were being made over and over and over anyway.

My recipe for fixing the issue would be setting up dynamic feedback loops to find and fix the bad goals as they need to be fixed.

]]> By: jeff watson http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/05/14/business-when-goals-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-66000 jeff watson Sat, 16 May 2009 16:31:37 +0000 http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=9160#comment-66000 Sam, Good post. I do disagree with your take on "Freakonomics" but that's just a matter of personal preference. You might to look at my friend Tyler Cowen's book "Discover Your Inner Economist." This book is along the same vein, but Cowen is a bit more scientific and does not stretch things like Levitt and Dubner did in Freakonomics when they correlated abortion with the crime rate. Goals can be really dangerous. I have a friend who is a fellow speculator who set lofty performance goals for himself and when he couldn't meet the goals, he engaged in riskier and riskier trades. He's not a speculator anymore. I have a simple, yet elegant goal. I want to make money three out of five trading days. Meeting that goal will provide amply for me and mine. Perhaps simpler is better. Jeff Sam,

Good post. I do disagree with your take on “Freakonomics” but that’s just a matter of personal preference. You might to look at my friend Tyler Cowen’s book “Discover Your Inner Economist.” This book is along the same vein, but Cowen is a bit more scientific and does not stretch things like Levitt and Dubner did in Freakonomics when they correlated abortion with the crime rate.

Goals can be really dangerous. I have a friend who is a fellow speculator who set lofty performance goals for himself and when he couldn’t meet the goals, he engaged in riskier and riskier trades. He’s not a speculator anymore. I have a simple, yet elegant goal. I want to make money three out of five trading days. Meeting that goal will provide amply for me and mine. Perhaps simpler is better.

Jeff

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