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	<title>Comments on: The Weekly Carboholic: Gas industry&#8217;s own fracking studies don&#8217;t support industry claims</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/07/15/the-weekly-carboholic-gas-industrys-own-fracking-studies-dont-support-industry-claims/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/07/15/the-weekly-carboholic-gas-industrys-own-fracking-studies-dont-support-industry-claims/</link>
	<description>Think - it ain&#039;t illegal yet...</description>
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		<title>By: July 2009 Part 5 &#124; Evans Politics</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/07/15/the-weekly-carboholic-gas-industrys-own-fracking-studies-dont-support-industry-claims/comment-page-1/#comment-72564</link>
		<dc:creator>July 2009 Part 5 &#124; Evans Politics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=10265#comment-72564</guid>
		<description>[...] the way, a brief note re the study: this is an analysis based on just one, rather simple, model, not the full range of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the way, a brief note re the study: this is an analysis based on just one, rather simple, model, not the full range of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Monica from ACCCE</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/07/15/the-weekly-carboholic-gas-industrys-own-fracking-studies-dont-support-industry-claims/comment-page-1/#comment-69162</link>
		<dc:creator>Monica from ACCCE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=10265#comment-69162</guid>
		<description>Oh gosh, I will check with our tech people about us being bot hosts -- that sounds awful. 

I am with the American Coalition of Clean Coal Electricity. As you know, energy is a highly complex issue and cannot just be solved overnight. And in order to keep up with growing energy consumption, we&#039;ll need to keep coal in the energy mix. It&#039;s a reliable, abundant and affordable source of energy. 

And whether you like it or not, developing countries like China and India have huge reserves of coal and they&#039;re certainly using it. Chu warned that if China continued on its path, in 30 years it would have equaled all the carbon pollution the U.S. has ever released.

Chu was just in China trying to open up their market to our clean technologies. We should work to develop those technologies here in the States so we can export it around the world -- therefore boosting our economy here while reducing GHGs. (You can read about that here: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-china-climate15-2009jul15,0,2145660,full.story). 

As for your questions, there are new regulations that carefully outline what can and cannot be done with regard to certain types of surface mining.

Those involved in the production of coal care about the environment, and that’s why they comply with current rules that require coal operators to establish a buffer around streams. There are other steps in place to make sure extraction is as clean as we can feasibly make it. And any project undertaken has the endorsement of the Army Corps of Engineers on ecological issues. You can read more about that at www.nma.org. 

I hope that answers your questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh gosh, I will check with our tech people about us being bot hosts &#8212; that sounds awful. </p>
<p>I am with the American Coalition of Clean Coal Electricity. As you know, energy is a highly complex issue and cannot just be solved overnight. And in order to keep up with growing energy consumption, we&#8217;ll need to keep coal in the energy mix. It&#8217;s a reliable, abundant and affordable source of energy. </p>
<p>And whether you like it or not, developing countries like China and India have huge reserves of coal and they&#8217;re certainly using it. Chu warned that if China continued on its path, in 30 years it would have equaled all the carbon pollution the U.S. has ever released.</p>
<p>Chu was just in China trying to open up their market to our clean technologies. We should work to develop those technologies here in the States so we can export it around the world &#8212; therefore boosting our economy here while reducing GHGs. (You can read about that here: <a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-china-climate15-2009jul15,0,2145660,full.story)" rel="nofollow">http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-china-climate15-2009jul15,0,2145660,full.story)</a>. </p>
<p>As for your questions, there are new regulations that carefully outline what can and cannot be done with regard to certain types of surface mining.</p>
<p>Those involved in the production of coal care about the environment, and that’s why they comply with current rules that require coal operators to establish a buffer around streams. There are other steps in place to make sure extraction is as clean as we can feasibly make it. And any project undertaken has the endorsement of the Army Corps of Engineers on ecological issues. You can read more about that at <a href="http://www.nma.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.nma.org</a>. </p>
<p>I hope that answers your questions.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/07/15/the-weekly-carboholic-gas-industrys-own-fracking-studies-dont-support-industry-claims/comment-page-1/#comment-69143</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=10265#comment-69143</guid>
		<description>Monica, I have a couple of questions.

How can coal be clean when, at least in Appalachia, early deaths from coal mining is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/06/24/the-weekly-carboholic-early-deaths-coal-costs/#coal&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;costing communities more than the mining companies bring in&lt;/a&gt;?

How can coal be clean when &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/07/the-weekly-carboholic-distributed-nuclear-a-cheaper-nuclear-solution/#tva&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;coal ash ponds&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/12/31/kingston-tn-sings-auld-lang-sludge/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;dump out&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/12/24/tennessee-coal-ash-slide-day-3/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;into nearby rivers&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/12/23/ash-flood-superfund/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;and poison them&lt;/a&gt; with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/12/30/coal-waste-dumps-ticking-toxic-time-bombs/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;toxic waste&lt;/a&gt;?

How can coal be clean when mountaintop removal mining &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/12/16/seven-simple-steps-to-save-appalachia/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;destroys pristine Appalachian mountains and streams&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/12/04/poor-affected-most-as-environmental-destruction-agency-blasts-away-barrier-to-expand-mountaintop-removal-mining/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;floods rivers with millions of gallons of toxic mine waste&lt;/a&gt;?

Also, the moderator deleted your second comment - it was identical except for the first sentence, and so offered nothing new.  It did, however, look like it might have been auto-generated.  Which makes the moderator&#039;s other observation that much more interesting - the IP address from which you posted both comments has been listed at spamcop, spamhaus XBL, SORBS, and the Composite Blocking List as a host responsible for sending spam and/or hosting a trojan site.  So I&#039;m curious - is the ACCCE contracting with someone who runs a likely illegal botnet, running the botnet themselves, or just hosting with someone who&#039;s security is so bad that they&#039;ve become a bot host?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Monica, I have a couple of questions.</p>
<p>How can coal be clean when, at least in Appalachia, early deaths from coal mining is <a href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/06/24/the-weekly-carboholic-early-deaths-coal-costs/#coal" rel="nofollow">costing communities more than the mining companies bring in</a>?</p>
<p>How can coal be clean when <a href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/01/07/the-weekly-carboholic-distributed-nuclear-a-cheaper-nuclear-solution/#tva" rel="nofollow">coal ash ponds</a> <a href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/12/31/kingston-tn-sings-auld-lang-sludge/" rel="nofollow">dump out</a> <a href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/12/24/tennessee-coal-ash-slide-day-3/" rel="nofollow">into nearby rivers</a> <a href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/12/23/ash-flood-superfund/" rel="nofollow">and poison them</a> with <a href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/12/30/coal-waste-dumps-ticking-toxic-time-bombs/" rel="nofollow">toxic waste</a>?</p>
<p>How can coal be clean when mountaintop removal mining <a href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/12/16/seven-simple-steps-to-save-appalachia/" rel="nofollow">destroys pristine Appalachian mountains and streams</a> and <a href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/12/04/poor-affected-most-as-environmental-destruction-agency-blasts-away-barrier-to-expand-mountaintop-removal-mining/" rel="nofollow">floods rivers with millions of gallons of toxic mine waste</a>?</p>
<p>Also, the moderator deleted your second comment &#8211; it was identical except for the first sentence, and so offered nothing new.  It did, however, look like it might have been auto-generated.  Which makes the moderator&#8217;s other observation that much more interesting &#8211; the IP address from which you posted both comments has been listed at spamcop, spamhaus XBL, SORBS, and the Composite Blocking List as a host responsible for sending spam and/or hosting a trojan site.  So I&#8217;m curious &#8211; is the ACCCE contracting with someone who runs a likely illegal botnet, running the botnet themselves, or just hosting with someone who&#8217;s security is so bad that they&#8217;ve become a bot host?</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Slammy</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/07/15/the-weekly-carboholic-gas-industrys-own-fracking-studies-dont-support-industry-claims/comment-page-1/#comment-69134</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Slammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=10265#comment-69134</guid>
		<description>Maybe once I get some of that clean coal I can go buy a pack of them healthier cigarettes I been hearing tell of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe once I get some of that clean coal I can go buy a pack of them healthier cigarettes I been hearing tell of.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/07/15/the-weekly-carboholic-gas-industrys-own-fracking-studies-dont-support-industry-claims/comment-page-1/#comment-69130</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=10265#comment-69130</guid>
		<description>Monica from ACCCE,

There are a lot of modifiers in your comment: &quot;once&quot;, &quot;is completed&quot;, &quot;will be&quot;, &quot;one of the cleanest&quot;, and number projections.

So what you&#039;re saying is basically nothing. You don&#039;t have a plant, you have a plan that a lot of people (except politicians...who aren&#039;t really people) are very skeptical about. Have you really figured out what to do with all the captured baddies? It seems to me that private investors tend to flee from &quot;clean coal&quot; projects; what is the ACCCE&#039;s projection for breaking even?

Hey, i get it...it&#039;s something and it plays well in soundbites as it proposes a seemingly simple situation to a complex problem. So instead of telling us how great this will be, why don&#039;t you show us it actually working; doing what you promise; and not being a complete money pit.

Oh, and you forgot to mention how the ACCCE plans to clean up the process of coal mining. Cutting a length from one end of the rope and splicing it to the other end does not make the rope longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Monica from ACCCE,</p>
<p>There are a lot of modifiers in your comment: &#8220;once&#8221;, &#8220;is completed&#8221;, &#8220;will be&#8221;, &#8220;one of the cleanest&#8221;, and number projections.</p>
<p>So what you&#8217;re saying is basically nothing. You don&#8217;t have a plant, you have a plan that a lot of people (except politicians&#8230;who aren&#8217;t really people) are very skeptical about. Have you really figured out what to do with all the captured baddies? It seems to me that private investors tend to flee from &#8220;clean coal&#8221; projects; what is the ACCCE&#8217;s projection for breaking even?</p>
<p>Hey, i get it&#8230;it&#8217;s something and it plays well in soundbites as it proposes a seemingly simple situation to a complex problem. So instead of telling us how great this will be, why don&#8217;t you show us it actually working; doing what you promise; and not being a complete money pit.</p>
<p>Oh, and you forgot to mention how the ACCCE plans to clean up the process of coal mining. Cutting a length from one end of the rope and splicing it to the other end does not make the rope longer.</p>
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		<title>By: Monica from ACCCE</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/07/15/the-weekly-carboholic-gas-industrys-own-fracking-studies-dont-support-industry-claims/comment-page-1/#comment-69128</link>
		<dc:creator>Monica from ACCCE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=10265#comment-69128</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s why it&#039;s time to support clean coal technology. Once the Duke Energy’s Edwardsport IGCC plant in Indiana is completed (it’s on schedule for 2012), this IGCC plant will be one of the cleanest coal-based power plants in the world, producing 10 times as much power as the existing unit with 45 percent less carbon dioxide emissions per unit of energy produced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s time to support clean coal technology. Once the Duke Energy’s Edwardsport IGCC plant in Indiana is completed (it’s on schedule for 2012), this IGCC plant will be one of the cleanest coal-based power plants in the world, producing 10 times as much power as the existing unit with 45 percent less carbon dioxide emissions per unit of energy produced.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/07/15/the-weekly-carboholic-gas-industrys-own-fracking-studies-dont-support-industry-claims/comment-page-1/#comment-68990</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 04:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=10265#comment-68990</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s something like three different ways to spell it, but hydraulic fracturing is pronounced with a &quot;k&quot;, I figured I&#039;d spell it that way.

And I assure you that I didn&#039;t even think about the expression &quot;frack&quot; from Battlestar Galactica even once while writing....  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s something like three different ways to spell it, but hydraulic fracturing is pronounced with a &#8220;k&#8221;, I figured I&#8217;d spell it that way.</p>
<p>And I assure you that I didn&#8217;t even think about the expression &#8220;frack&#8221; from Battlestar Galactica even once while writing&#8230;.  <img src='http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Russ Wellen</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/07/15/the-weekly-carboholic-gas-industrys-own-fracking-studies-dont-support-industry-claims/comment-page-1/#comment-68982</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Wellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=10265#comment-68982</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;the exact same studies being used by industry to oppose fracking actually counter the industry’s own arguments&lt;/blockquote&gt;That&#039;s pretty funny. Thanks for explaining &quot;fracking.&quot;

Re wind turbines affecting weather: What&#039;s another blustery day -- or 364?

Uncle B, your vision of the future is intriguing, to say the least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>the exact same studies being used by industry to oppose fracking actually counter the industry’s own arguments</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s pretty funny. Thanks for explaining &#8220;fracking.&#8221;</p>
<p>Re wind turbines affecting weather: What&#8217;s another blustery day &#8212; or 364?</p>
<p>Uncle B, your vision of the future is intriguing, to say the least.</p>
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		<title>By: New study, climate Deniers are &#8220;fundamentally wrong&#8221; &#171; Greenfyre&#8217;s</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/07/15/the-weekly-carboholic-gas-industrys-own-fracking-studies-dont-support-industry-claims/comment-page-1/#comment-68960</link>
		<dc:creator>New study, climate Deniers are &#8220;fundamentally wrong&#8221; &#171; Greenfyre&#8217;s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=10265#comment-68960</guid>
		<description>[...] Scholars and Rogues [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Scholars and Rogues [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle B</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/07/15/the-weekly-carboholic-gas-industrys-own-fracking-studies-dont-support-industry-claims/comment-page-1/#comment-68905</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=10265#comment-68905</guid>
		<description>The turn-around occurred when the Chinese became unwilling to lend money to support the &quot;American Dream&quot;! Since that moment, life has changed on our planet, and the new, vegetarian, small-bodied, higher IQ individuals now rule! Since that moment, Zero-running cost, Zero upkeep, eco-ship style homes make sense, and the extravagant folly of the formerly worshiped &quot;McMansion&quot; has been revealed. After that point, where consuming oil on money borrowed from other nations, in inefficient gasoline cars becomes impossible, and paying in cash at the pumps will become an American reality, a new economy Hybrid, followed by a social pattern changing, totally electric car, is an absolute! Sewage bio-gassing and algae-oil as well as many other healthy home-grown fuel sources will come into common use, since buying petroleum with other&#039;s money is now not possible! The magic balancing point where developing efficient rail transportation, to replace the fuel-extravaganza of intercity air travel has suddenly become a government mandate to maintain the current economy. Huge, home-built and home-fueled nuclear plants will soon dot the skylines of American cities, for energy survival sake!  The small local underground reactor will replace corner gas stations and power hospitals, prisons, neighborhoods and farm districts for efficiency&#039;s sake, and to keep the often charged battery cars running. Factories will build huge dormitories to lessen the strain of transportation to and from work, and a new morality for Americans - &quot;good sexual behaviors&quot; will spring up inside these dorms! Great underground settlements around the solar collectors in the deserts of America will spring up, complete with adjoining tunnels and work shifts organized to accommodate the solar peak power times - a gasoline-less world to be sure! Huge wind farms to be serviced by only the new &quot;Brave and Masculine American Heroes&quot;  will take over whole country-sides, and provide heavy currents for new industry, set up in direct competition with China&#039;s massive Nuclear installations. Great new riches will be gained by those educated few scientists developing means and ways of electricity, the new God in power for mankind, to serve people.  We the American people have been broken of our &quot;Oil Addiction&quot; by the fact that we can no longer afford to pay for importing it, and will have to change over, now, to home-made forms of fuels, and like it or not, the Chinese by laughing out loud at Timmy Geithner, in Beijing, and turning down Obama&#039;s overtures for more, massive, loans of dying dollars, were the final cure! Even OPEC and the Saudis will not extend oil without payment , not even to their oldest friends and trading partners, the U.S.A., when they can get cash, even if it is in &quot;Yuan&quot; from China.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The turn-around occurred when the Chinese became unwilling to lend money to support the &#8220;American Dream&#8221;! Since that moment, life has changed on our planet, and the new, vegetarian, small-bodied, higher IQ individuals now rule! Since that moment, Zero-running cost, Zero upkeep, eco-ship style homes make sense, and the extravagant folly of the formerly worshiped &#8220;McMansion&#8221; has been revealed. After that point, where consuming oil on money borrowed from other nations, in inefficient gasoline cars becomes impossible, and paying in cash at the pumps will become an American reality, a new economy Hybrid, followed by a social pattern changing, totally electric car, is an absolute! Sewage bio-gassing and algae-oil as well as many other healthy home-grown fuel sources will come into common use, since buying petroleum with other&#8217;s money is now not possible! The magic balancing point where developing efficient rail transportation, to replace the fuel-extravaganza of intercity air travel has suddenly become a government mandate to maintain the current economy. Huge, home-built and home-fueled nuclear plants will soon dot the skylines of American cities, for energy survival sake!  The small local underground reactor will replace corner gas stations and power hospitals, prisons, neighborhoods and farm districts for efficiency&#8217;s sake, and to keep the often charged battery cars running. Factories will build huge dormitories to lessen the strain of transportation to and from work, and a new morality for Americans &#8211; &#8220;good sexual behaviors&#8221; will spring up inside these dorms! Great underground settlements around the solar collectors in the deserts of America will spring up, complete with adjoining tunnels and work shifts organized to accommodate the solar peak power times &#8211; a gasoline-less world to be sure! Huge wind farms to be serviced by only the new &#8220;Brave and Masculine American Heroes&#8221;  will take over whole country-sides, and provide heavy currents for new industry, set up in direct competition with China&#8217;s massive Nuclear installations. Great new riches will be gained by those educated few scientists developing means and ways of electricity, the new God in power for mankind, to serve people.  We the American people have been broken of our &#8220;Oil Addiction&#8221; by the fact that we can no longer afford to pay for importing it, and will have to change over, now, to home-made forms of fuels, and like it or not, the Chinese by laughing out loud at Timmy Geithner, in Beijing, and turning down Obama&#8217;s overtures for more, massive, loans of dying dollars, were the final cure! Even OPEC and the Saudis will not extend oil without payment , not even to their oldest friends and trading partners, the U.S.A., when they can get cash, even if it is in &#8220;Yuan&#8221; from China.</p>
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