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	<title>Comments on: The Weekly Carboholic: U.S. Chamber of Commerce files for EPA climate disruption trial (update #2)</title>
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	<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/26/the-weekly-carboholic-chamber-of-commerce/</link>
	<description>Think.  It ain&#039;t illegal yet...</description>
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		<title>By: Scholars and Rogues &#187; Duke energy withdraws from ACCCE</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/26/the-weekly-carboholic-chamber-of-commerce/comment-page-1/#comment-71081</link>
		<dc:creator>Scholars and Rogues &#187; Duke energy withdraws from ACCCE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 17:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11034#comment-71081</guid>
		<description>[...] Energy remains part of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the business group that recently called for a &#8220;Scopes trial&#8221; hearing on the EPA&#8217;s finding that greenhouse gas emissions cause climate change and that climate [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Energy remains part of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the business group that recently called for a &#8220;Scopes trial&#8221; hearing on the EPA&#8217;s finding that greenhouse gas emissions cause climate change and that climate [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/26/the-weekly-carboholic-chamber-of-commerce/comment-page-1/#comment-70769</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11034#comment-70769</guid>
		<description>Yeah, the battery aspect may well be cutting from one end of the rope to splice onto the other. We&#039;d be far better off reducing vehicle weight (if only the government would mandate that we all drive race cars!) and increasing public transportation use. My question would be just how long these battery packs will actually last (real world) and how easy it will be to really recycle them. 

I&#039;ve heard so many &quot;reasons&quot; why we can&#039;t have diesels. None of them make the least bit of sense to me. Let&#039;s take the Prius and the diesel Fiesta (all Euro numbers). The best the Prius can get is 67 imperial mpg, while the Fiesta gets 76. And the Fiesta comes in at 98 g CO2/km. The particulate emissions are an issue (though not for semi-tractors, apparently) but the Fiesta also has lower NOx numbers too. And some of the tech like urea injection cleans diesel like a catalytic converter cleans gas engines.

And as far as i know, even the most modern diesels can be cut (weather depending) with up to 50% strained fryer oil. Put a little, clean diesel that can run 50% recycled into a hybrid and now we&#039;re starting to talk.

I totally meant to respond to the invasive weed question. Honestly, it&#039;s hard to tell because it will depend on what varieties are selected. I can&#039;t imagine researchers choosing an annual crop, which means that with grasses the fields could be contained with rhizome barriers. And i would think that harvest would be pre-seed setting (like mowing your lawn) It could be a good excuse to reconstruct prairie grass lands...except that in making ethanol things change with inputs (if i&#039;m not mistaken), so the goal will probably be monoculture. Shameful really.

Maybe we could start grazing livestock on huge midwestern pasture land again and find a way to collect cow farts...and then periodically eat our methane generators (though grass fed cows fart less than grain fed cows).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, the battery aspect may well be cutting from one end of the rope to splice onto the other. We&#8217;d be far better off reducing vehicle weight (if only the government would mandate that we all drive race cars!) and increasing public transportation use. My question would be just how long these battery packs will actually last (real world) and how easy it will be to really recycle them. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard so many &#8220;reasons&#8221; why we can&#8217;t have diesels. None of them make the least bit of sense to me. Let&#8217;s take the Prius and the diesel Fiesta (all Euro numbers). The best the Prius can get is 67 imperial mpg, while the Fiesta gets 76. And the Fiesta comes in at 98 g CO2/km. The particulate emissions are an issue (though not for semi-tractors, apparently) but the Fiesta also has lower NOx numbers too. And some of the tech like urea injection cleans diesel like a catalytic converter cleans gas engines.</p>
<p>And as far as i know, even the most modern diesels can be cut (weather depending) with up to 50% strained fryer oil. Put a little, clean diesel that can run 50% recycled into a hybrid and now we&#8217;re starting to talk.</p>
<p>I totally meant to respond to the invasive weed question. Honestly, it&#8217;s hard to tell because it will depend on what varieties are selected. I can&#8217;t imagine researchers choosing an annual crop, which means that with grasses the fields could be contained with rhizome barriers. And i would think that harvest would be pre-seed setting (like mowing your lawn) It could be a good excuse to reconstruct prairie grass lands&#8230;except that in making ethanol things change with inputs (if i&#8217;m not mistaken), so the goal will probably be monoculture. Shameful really.</p>
<p>Maybe we could start grazing livestock on huge midwestern pasture land again and find a way to collect cow farts&#8230;and then periodically eat our methane generators (though grass fed cows fart less than grain fed cows).</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/26/the-weekly-carboholic-chamber-of-commerce/comment-page-1/#comment-70724</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11034#comment-70724</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m ambivalent about the whole hybrid thing - I&#039;m not convinced that the payoff is worth the cost, in terms of pollution or energy consumption.  And part of my problem is exacerbated by the Volt - batteries.  NiCd, MiMH, and Li-ion batteries aren&#039;t as polluting as standard lead-acid 12 V car batteries, but they&#039;re not all sweetness and light either.

Efficient diesel in the U.S. would be great thing, though, from what I can tell.  I&#039;ve read a few reports that the reason we don&#039;t have those vehicles here in the U.S. is because California hasn&#039;t decided whether diesel is going to be even more heavily regulated than it already is.  The problem is supposedly the particulates created in diesel consumption.

Cellulosic biofuels could be made to work if scientists can engineer good enzyme or artificial catalysts, but cellulose is hard to break down for a reason - it&#039;s the structural matter that supports the plants.  I agree that algae could be the way to go, especially if engineers can figure out how to get the water out efficiently (getting algae to make a biodiesel or something similar is a biological sciences problem - purging the algae of water is an engineering problem).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m ambivalent about the whole hybrid thing &#8211; I&#8217;m not convinced that the payoff is worth the cost, in terms of pollution or energy consumption.  And part of my problem is exacerbated by the Volt &#8211; batteries.  NiCd, MiMH, and Li-ion batteries aren&#8217;t as polluting as standard lead-acid 12 V car batteries, but they&#8217;re not all sweetness and light either.</p>
<p>Efficient diesel in the U.S. would be great thing, though, from what I can tell.  I&#8217;ve read a few reports that the reason we don&#8217;t have those vehicles here in the U.S. is because California hasn&#8217;t decided whether diesel is going to be even more heavily regulated than it already is.  The problem is supposedly the particulates created in diesel consumption.</p>
<p>Cellulosic biofuels could be made to work if scientists can engineer good enzyme or artificial catalysts, but cellulose is hard to break down for a reason &#8211; it&#8217;s the structural matter that supports the plants.  I agree that algae could be the way to go, especially if engineers can figure out how to get the water out efficiently (getting algae to make a biodiesel or something similar is a biological sciences problem &#8211; purging the algae of water is an engineering problem).</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/26/the-weekly-carboholic-chamber-of-commerce/comment-page-1/#comment-70718</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11034#comment-70718</guid>
		<description>To the best of my knowledge, any plant matter can be made into cellulosic ethanol. The real problem is that all of them will require more energy/land than we get out. In my opinion, the only realistic biofuels will be algae diesel and the possibility of harnessing the photosynthetic process to produce hydrogen. (other forms of bio diesel are possible; in fact, the diesel cycle was developed for non-petroleum fuels. But i still think we run into negative returns because of the time/land input being greater than the fuel we get)

GM is unfairly getting the stink over the Volt claims. This is a far better, more efficient and more elegant application than the strong-hybrid of the Prius (which is, quite frankly, crap greenwashing. A similar diesel - with only one drive train - gets equivalent mileage; and check real world mileage for hybrids in northern climes...thought to be fair, all battery systems will suffer in that situation).

The difference is that in the Volt the gasoline engine (should be diesel or natural gas) never drives the vehicle, so it is never subjected to acceleration/deceleration. The engine is just a generator and so can be tuned to maximum efficiency in the rpm band used for generation, and unlike the Prius, all the transmission bits needed to convert the ICE energy to the wheels are gone. It is an electric car with an onboard generator.

Moreover, the generator is not programmed to fully charge the battery. It kicks on when the battery drops to 30% charge and works only enough to keep it there. Yes, the mileage will drop (and you may never get equivalent 230mpg) on a cross country road trip, but if you drive normally and for normal commuting distances, the engine will hardly run at all.

On the other hand, unlike plug-in concepts this one won&#039;t leave you stranded when you run out of battery power...nor will you need to wait hours to continue your trip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the best of my knowledge, any plant matter can be made into cellulosic ethanol. The real problem is that all of them will require more energy/land than we get out. In my opinion, the only realistic biofuels will be algae diesel and the possibility of harnessing the photosynthetic process to produce hydrogen. (other forms of bio diesel are possible; in fact, the diesel cycle was developed for non-petroleum fuels. But i still think we run into negative returns because of the time/land input being greater than the fuel we get)</p>
<p>GM is unfairly getting the stink over the Volt claims. This is a far better, more efficient and more elegant application than the strong-hybrid of the Prius (which is, quite frankly, crap greenwashing. A similar diesel &#8211; with only one drive train &#8211; gets equivalent mileage; and check real world mileage for hybrids in northern climes&#8230;thought to be fair, all battery systems will suffer in that situation).</p>
<p>The difference is that in the Volt the gasoline engine (should be diesel or natural gas) never drives the vehicle, so it is never subjected to acceleration/deceleration. The engine is just a generator and so can be tuned to maximum efficiency in the rpm band used for generation, and unlike the Prius, all the transmission bits needed to convert the ICE energy to the wheels are gone. It is an electric car with an onboard generator.</p>
<p>Moreover, the generator is not programmed to fully charge the battery. It kicks on when the battery drops to 30% charge and works only enough to keep it there. Yes, the mileage will drop (and you may never get equivalent 230mpg) on a cross country road trip, but if you drive normally and for normal commuting distances, the engine will hardly run at all.</p>
<p>On the other hand, unlike plug-in concepts this one won&#8217;t leave you stranded when you run out of battery power&#8230;nor will you need to wait hours to continue your trip.</p>
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		<title>By: Climate Deniers demand Stalinist style political show trial &#171; Greenfyre&#8217;s</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/26/the-weekly-carboholic-chamber-of-commerce/comment-page-1/#comment-70709</link>
		<dc:creator>Climate Deniers demand Stalinist style political show trial &#171; Greenfyre&#8217;s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11034#comment-70709</guid>
		<description>[...] be a tactical move where they simply hope to further delay anything being done about climate (see here and here), just as the tobacco industry did (more parallels). Even so, if you&#8217;ll allow just a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] be a tactical move where they simply hope to further delay anything being done about climate (see here and here), just as the tobacco industry did (more parallels). Even so, if you&#8217;ll allow just a [...]</p>
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