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	<title>Comments on: Free the markets</title>
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	<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/27/free-the-markets/</link>
	<description>Think.  It ain&#039;t illegal yet...</description>
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		<title>By: Ubertramp</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/27/free-the-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-70804</link>
		<dc:creator>Ubertramp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11076#comment-70804</guid>
		<description>Slammy, even if you&#039;re not TRYING to start a fight, you certainly sound like it.  :)  But I am curious about what you asked.  If what Lex is saying is true about patent infringement, that would be kinda scary.  I wonder if farmers next door could actually flip that rule somehow.  Have Monsanto pay damages for lost income due to cross pollination.  If they can&#039;t sell it because of infringement, there has to be some sort of way to fight back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slammy, even if you&#8217;re not TRYING to start a fight, you certainly sound like it.  <img src='http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   But I am curious about what you asked.  If what Lex is saying is true about patent infringement, that would be kinda scary.  I wonder if farmers next door could actually flip that rule somehow.  Have Monsanto pay damages for lost income due to cross pollination.  If they can&#8217;t sell it because of infringement, there has to be some sort of way to fight back.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Slammy</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/27/free-the-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-70802</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Slammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11076#comment-70802</guid>
		<description>Jeff: I&#039;m not trying to pick a fight at all. It just seemed to me that there was something OBVIOUS that you should have an opinion on. And that if the property rights thing didn&#039;t stand in conflict with the other thing you care a lot about - making money - that you&#039;d be commenting rather passionately.

I personally would just like to hear why Monsanto isn&#039;t trampling on the preeminent right of a free society, the right to property. what&#039;s being described is a phenomenon I&#039;ve never thought about before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff: I&#8217;m not trying to pick a fight at all. It just seemed to me that there was something OBVIOUS that you should have an opinion on. And that if the property rights thing didn&#8217;t stand in conflict with the other thing you care a lot about &#8211; making money &#8211; that you&#8217;d be commenting rather passionately.</p>
<p>I personally would just like to hear why Monsanto isn&#8217;t trampling on the preeminent right of a free society, the right to property. what&#8217;s being described is a phenomenon I&#8217;ve never thought about before.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Watson</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/27/free-the-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-70794</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11076#comment-70794</guid>
		<description>And Sam, don&#039;t try to pick a fight with me today, I&#039;m not in the mood.  We all know you&#039;re the supreme intellectual so leave it at that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Sam, don&#8217;t try to pick a fight with me today, I&#8217;m not in the mood.  We all know you&#8217;re the supreme intellectual so leave it at that.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Slammy</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/27/free-the-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-70767</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Slammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11076#comment-70767</guid>
		<description>Jeff: You ducked what seemed to me to be the most interesting of questions for a guy like you: &lt;em&gt;What gives someone the right to infringe on my property for his personal profit?&lt;/em&gt;

Seriously, you&#039;re a property rights guy, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff: You ducked what seemed to me to be the most interesting of questions for a guy like you: <em>What gives someone the right to infringe on my property for his personal profit?</em></p>
<p>Seriously, you&#8217;re a property rights guy, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Watson</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/27/free-the-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-70766</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11076#comment-70766</guid>
		<description>Lex,

With the low world food supplies, higher yields won&#039;t make much, if any, of a dent in prices.  In fact, the last crop report had a greater supply than previously thought, and wheat and soybeans rallied.  A better measure to look at is to compare the average yield per acre and the average cash price FOB Duluth or New Orleans.  The key drivers in food prices are the value of the USD , exports, supplies on hand, and  cost of carry.  This country is so export driven as far as ag products is concerned, it&#039;s not even funny.  I remember in 1973 when Russia bought our crop in the futures markets, then we had a bad crop, so they sold it back to us at a huge profit, and made a great trade.  It was the trade of the century, a work of art.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lex,</p>
<p>With the low world food supplies, higher yields won&#8217;t make much, if any, of a dent in prices.  In fact, the last crop report had a greater supply than previously thought, and wheat and soybeans rallied.  A better measure to look at is to compare the average yield per acre and the average cash price FOB Duluth or New Orleans.  The key drivers in food prices are the value of the USD , exports, supplies on hand, and  cost of carry.  This country is so export driven as far as ag products is concerned, it&#8217;s not even funny.  I remember in 1973 when Russia bought our crop in the futures markets, then we had a bad crop, so they sold it back to us at a huge profit, and made a great trade.  It was the trade of the century, a work of art.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/27/free-the-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-70765</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11076#comment-70765</guid>
		<description>It is not always (or even most often) Greenpeace who ruins transgenic test fields, particularly in Europe. It is often neighboring farmers who &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; get whatever traits the test is looking at in their fields. And as i noted, if you don&#039;t plant the product but some drifts onto your land or cross-pollinates with your crop so that markers show up, you&#039;re guilty of patent infringement. If i were a farmer who - through no choice of my own - got a transgenic experimental plot next to mine, i&#039;d burn it too. What gives someone the right to infringe on my property for his personal profit?

Oh yes, the genie is out of the bottle. Unfortunately, there&#039;s research beginning to show that Round Up is quite bad for humans (not the active ingredient, but the proprietary blend of ingredients to make the product). It is not generally an issue, because we used to spray it on things we wanted to kill. With RoundUp Ready, the plant can absorb the chemical and not die. 

GM is probably not directly responsible for pollinator death or amphibian population crashes.

Higher yields only mean lower crop prices/higher government subsidies which does not help farmers at all. In fact, it pushes them towards ever more extreme measures to lower costs per bushel/acre/whatever.

Nature won&#039;t lose an arms race...not over the long run.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not always (or even most often) Greenpeace who ruins transgenic test fields, particularly in Europe. It is often neighboring farmers who <i>will</i> get whatever traits the test is looking at in their fields. And as i noted, if you don&#8217;t plant the product but some drifts onto your land or cross-pollinates with your crop so that markers show up, you&#8217;re guilty of patent infringement. If i were a farmer who &#8211; through no choice of my own &#8211; got a transgenic experimental plot next to mine, i&#8217;d burn it too. What gives someone the right to infringe on my property for his personal profit?</p>
<p>Oh yes, the genie is out of the bottle. Unfortunately, there&#8217;s research beginning to show that Round Up is quite bad for humans (not the active ingredient, but the proprietary blend of ingredients to make the product). It is not generally an issue, because we used to spray it on things we wanted to kill. With RoundUp Ready, the plant can absorb the chemical and not die. </p>
<p>GM is probably not directly responsible for pollinator death or amphibian population crashes.</p>
<p>Higher yields only mean lower crop prices/higher government subsidies which does not help farmers at all. In fact, it pushes them towards ever more extreme measures to lower costs per bushel/acre/whatever.</p>
<p>Nature won&#8217;t lose an arms race&#8230;not over the long run.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Watson</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/27/free-the-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-70750</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11076#comment-70750</guid>
		<description>I admire Monsanto&#039;s forward thinking business plan and wish that I would have been forward enough of a thinker to develop a product like that.

 Whether you like GM products or not, the genie is out of the bottle and there&#039;s no turning back.

From personal experience, Monsanto&#039;s Genuity VT Triple Pro is a superior corn, and offers excellent yields and bugs and blight just hates this wonderful product. Although some traits of the seed are meant to be in combination with Monsanto&#039;s other products, with the triple stacking, this corn variety offers a natural repellent to pests which reduces waste. Monsanto better watch their lead, as DuPont&#039;s Pioneer Seed Company is working hard on some fascinating R&amp;D to make better seeds via the GM route. The seed companies are really slugging it out with this one.  Pretty soon, we&#039;ll find the GM applications commonplace in livestock, with C@rgill doing some groundbreaking work with turkeys.

Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admire Monsanto&#8217;s forward thinking business plan and wish that I would have been forward enough of a thinker to develop a product like that.</p>
<p> Whether you like GM products or not, the genie is out of the bottle and there&#8217;s no turning back.</p>
<p>From personal experience, Monsanto&#8217;s Genuity VT Triple Pro is a superior corn, and offers excellent yields and bugs and blight just hates this wonderful product. Although some traits of the seed are meant to be in combination with Monsanto&#8217;s other products, with the triple stacking, this corn variety offers a natural repellent to pests which reduces waste. Monsanto better watch their lead, as DuPont&#8217;s Pioneer Seed Company is working hard on some fascinating R&amp;D to make better seeds via the GM route. The seed companies are really slugging it out with this one.  Pretty soon, we&#8217;ll find the GM applications commonplace in livestock, with C@rgill doing some groundbreaking work with turkeys.</p>
<p>Jeff</p>
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		<title>By: Farley</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/27/free-the-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-70748</link>
		<dc:creator>Farley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11076#comment-70748</guid>
		<description>Is it responsible for the bees and frogs dying off? GM that is. I wouldn&#039;t doubt it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it responsible for the bees and frogs dying off? GM that is. I wouldn&#8217;t doubt it.</p>
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		<title>By: whythawk</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/27/free-the-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-70744</link>
		<dc:creator>whythawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11076#comment-70744</guid>
		<description>Discussed this in a post of my own a while back (http://www.whythawk.com/analysis/the-joy-of-a-good-biotech-lunch.html).  Here&#039;s the reason biotech is dominated by big companies like Monsanto:

Consider the legislative background against which GM products are developed. There are few countries that allow trials and it is astonishingly expensive to comply with all the red tape. And worse, mid-way through your expensive trial, Greenpeace activists turn up and destroy the crop.

Since 2000, only 54 GM crop trials have been allowed in the UK. Almost all of them were vandalised.

There are virtually no small businesses that could afford to see their efforts destroyed and their investment wasted in this fashion. Far better to enter other fields. And so, the only companies that can afford to persevere against the international opprobrium heaped on GM producers are very, very large ones. The very legislation designed to protect people from the domination of the industry by major corporations entrenches major corporations.


I&#039;m all in favour of labelling and letting the market decide.  But the problem is not just that Monsanto is dominant, but that &quot;environmental&quot; lobbyists are complicit in that dominance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Discussed this in a post of my own a while back (<a href="http://www.whythawk.com/analysis/the-joy-of-a-good-biotech-lunch.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.whythawk.com/analysis/the-joy-of-a-good-biotech-lunch.html</a>).  Here&#8217;s the reason biotech is dominated by big companies like Monsanto:</p>
<p>Consider the legislative background against which GM products are developed. There are few countries that allow trials and it is astonishingly expensive to comply with all the red tape. And worse, mid-way through your expensive trial, Greenpeace activists turn up and destroy the crop.</p>
<p>Since 2000, only 54 GM crop trials have been allowed in the UK. Almost all of them were vandalised.</p>
<p>There are virtually no small businesses that could afford to see their efforts destroyed and their investment wasted in this fashion. Far better to enter other fields. And so, the only companies that can afford to persevere against the international opprobrium heaped on GM producers are very, very large ones. The very legislation designed to protect people from the domination of the industry by major corporations entrenches major corporations.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all in favour of labelling and letting the market decide.  But the problem is not just that Monsanto is dominant, but that &#8220;environmental&#8221; lobbyists are complicit in that dominance.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Slammy</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/08/27/free-the-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-70737</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Slammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=11076#comment-70737</guid>
		<description>So I guess a survival trait that we humans should be evolving is resistance to toxins and genetically modded food, huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I guess a survival trait that we humans should be evolving is resistance to toxins and genetically modded food, huh?</p>
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