Comments on: D.C.—part two: “What about me?”

By: The Athenian Arts

The Athenian Arts — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:41:23 +0000

The Athenian Arts…

…an interesting post over at . …..

By: Frances Hunter

Frances Hunter — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:47:08 +0000

Jefferson was a real piece of work, there’s no doubt about that. In the end, though, I think the historical reputation of most presidents rises and falls on whether he got the big things right. In Jefferson’s case, he did, and rightly earns his place as one of the greats.

By: Bob

Bob — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:09:38 +0000

Thanks for the tips. I read “American Creation” and like you said it was an easy read. In fact that wa the book that started my fascination with the founders and the process they went through. In fact I ended up using it as an example of the Kotter 5 Step Change model for an HR Class a few years later.

I will definately give the other two a look.

By: cwmackowski

cwmackowski — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:19:57 +0000

@ Bob: For books about Jefferson, I’d recommend Joseph Ellis’s American Sphinx. It won the National Book Award and, like most of Ellis’s stuff, is highly readable. I’d also recommend Ellis’s Founding Brothers, which ranks as one of my all-time favorite books. It looks at the Founders as a family of squabbling brothers and provides great insights into their interpersonal and political dynamics. The book’s a Pulitzer winner, too.

@ libhomo: Remember, there was no such thing as unconstitutionality at the time Adams approved the Alien & Sedition Acts. Judicial review had not yet been established, and the First Amendment was not revered then the way it is today. Also, the Founders were still making up the rules of governance, so I’m not sure “contempt” is the right word. Having said that, though, the acts were still a bad idea–even Adams later admitted so. I decline to judge Adams on that basis alone, just as I decline to judge Jefferson on the slavery issue alone.

By: JS OBrien

JS OBrien — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:59:37 +0000

@ Bob:

I can’t speak to entertainment value, but for completeness, I think the gold standard on Jefferson is still the series by Dumas Malone. I think there are six volumes, all quite weighty. Hope that helps.

By: Lex

Lex — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:51:39 +0000

I share the contradictory feelings about Jefferson, more so since i recently finished a book titled Friends of Liberty (which i’m hoping to bang into review/rumination shape shortly).

The book focuses on a not overly well-known event in Jefferson’s life: when he became executor of Tadeusz Kosciuszko’s will. TK had to wait a while, but the US finally paid up for his services during the Revolution, including (if this is new to anyone) building the fortifications at West Point. The estate was to be used to purchase, educate and free slaves. Jefferson delayed and delayed and finally relinquished the position of executor because he claimed he was old, tired and didn’t have the energy…though he did so during the period when he was working so hard to build the university.

I think he may get more of a free ride on the slavery issue than he deserves.

By: Dr. Slammy

Dr. Slammy — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:11:47 +0000

Not that my poetry is terribly relevant here, per se, but I really appreciate your struggle with TJ’s contradictions.

Raven, February Moon

Full moon. Snowfield, vast
beneath the mountain:

to understand the
truth of people, study
their contradictions.

By: libhomo

libhomo — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:53:23 +0000

I don’t like Adams, at least not as a president. He had a Bush style contempt for civil liberties, including his unconstitutional Sedition Acts.

By: Bob

Bob — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:37:49 +0000

I have read McColloughs book on Adams as well as seen the miniseries. I have yet to find a book equal to that on Jefferson. Any suggestions?

The founders as a group fascinate me becuase they got so much accomplished without neccessarily agreeing. Could guys like Adams, Jefferson, Hamilton etc exist in todays culture and be effective or would the talking heads and media spotlight doom them to partisan ineptitude?

By: JS OBrien

JS OBrien — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:15:37 +0000

I gotta tell you, Chris, when you attend the University of Virginia, Mr. Jefferson is never quite out of sight or mind. His ghost permeates the place from the Rotunda to the serpentine walls he built to maintain stability while saving bricks. Still, I don’t revere Jefferson like many other alums do. I think, like you, that he was both great and greatly flawed.

Thanks again for a great piece.

By: CWMackowski

CWMackowski — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:06:34 +0000

I agree, he does deserve his memorial. (I’d like to see the Adams family get theirs, too!) I also contend that Jefferson’s home, Monticello, qualifies as one of the must-see places in America. That, even moreso than his memorial in D.C., stands as a beautiful testament to the man.

I like how you mention the Virginia statute. That was one of the three things Jefferson was most proud of and had inscribed on his tombstone (along with “Author of Declaration of Independence” and “founder of the University of Virginia”–he left “President” off).

As you can probably tell, I could go on about the guy for hours. Thanks for taking the time to add some great comments, JS.

By: JS OBrien

JS OBrien — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:00:20 +0000

Beautifully written, Chris. Like you, I find Jefferson to be a man of very strange contradictions. He professed love of the common man and the simple, rural life, yet seemed most at home in Paris.

Still, he is one of the rocks of religious freedom. He may well have been an agnostic, or even an atheist. We’ll never know. We do know that he penned the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, and that he founded the first secular university in the US, which had as its architectural nexus a scale model of the Roman Pantheon — not a church. And in this scale model was — a library.

I think Jefferson fell too far under the influence of French philosophers like Rousseau for his abstract reasoning, but somehow knew, in his heart, that the world works more the way Machiavelli saw it.

He was a very flawed man, but he was also one of the few American political geniuses to obtain international stature. I think he deserves his monument, but that’s just me.

By: Tom Shortell

Tom Shortell — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 04:33:12 +0000

My dad’s an Adams man as well. However, his Alien and Sedition Acts has led me to wash my hands of both Adams and Jefferson.

I’ll have to drop by the Jefferson Monument sometime. I’ve only been to DC three times, and I’ve missed it each trip.