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	<title>Comments on: Climategate?  Not likely.</title>
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	<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/</link>
	<description>Think - it ain&#039;t illegal yet...</description>
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		<title>By: Scholars and Rogues &#187; Three of four misconduct allegations against Michael Mann found to be without merit</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-77055</link>
		<dc:creator>Scholars and Rogues &#187; Three of four misconduct allegations against Michael Mann found to be without merit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-77055</guid>
		<description>[...] is a point that has been made repeatedly ever since the CRU emails were released last [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is a point that has been made repeatedly ever since the CRU emails were released last [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scholars and Rogues &#187; It&#8217;s Climategate 2.0! (&#8230;not)</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-76597</link>
		<dc:creator>Scholars and Rogues &#187; It&#8217;s Climategate 2.0! (&#8230;not)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-76597</guid>
		<description>[...] come unmoored if he seriously thinks that these emails show anything even remotely like another climate non-scandal. And while neither Watts nor McIntyre have made the same claim that Delingpole made, both men did [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] come unmoored if he seriously thinks that these emails show anything even remotely like another climate non-scandal. And while neither Watts nor McIntyre have made the same claim that Delingpole made, both men did [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The world consensus about anthropogenic climate change - Page 94 - Political Forum</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-76120</link>
		<dc:creator>The world consensus about anthropogenic climate change - Page 94 - Political Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 02:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-76120</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: This decade 'warmest on record' - Page 5 - The Environment Site Forums</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-76105</link>
		<dc:creator>This decade 'warmest on record' - Page 5 - The Environment Site Forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 09:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-76105</guid>
		<description>[...] Climategate? Not likely. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Climategate? Not likely. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Real Climate Gate &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-75664</link>
		<dc:creator>Real Climate Gate &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-75664</guid>
		<description>[...] Angliss: Climategate? Not likely. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Angliss: Climategate? Not likely. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-75524</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-75524</guid>
		<description>See my response &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/12/03/sensenbrenner-swifthack/comment-page-1/#comment-75523&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  Summary - your out-of-context data don&#039;t represent the complex reality of the Earth&#039;s atmosphere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See my response <a href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/12/03/sensenbrenner-swifthack/comment-page-1/#comment-75523" rel="nofollow">here</a>.  Summary &#8211; your out-of-context data don&#8217;t represent the complex reality of the Earth&#8217;s atmosphere.</p>
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		<title>By: The Last Pundit</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-75513</link>
		<dc:creator>The Last Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-75513</guid>
		<description>How many of you clowns actually know how much CO2 is in the atmosphere? 
How many of you know what percentage of the total man contributes to the total CO2 and CH4 put into the atmosphere each year?
Just fine my other posts on this site and read the answers.  
You are the programmed mindless droids of the new eugenics movement.  
Agenda 21,  SVCP, AGW, RAND 
Answers 0.038% or 380ppm and 0.7% FOOLS
Because I know your programming has taught you to not look for the truth just beleve what the TV and Rothschild media empire tells you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many of you clowns actually know how much CO2 is in the atmosphere?<br />
How many of you know what percentage of the total man contributes to the total CO2 and CH4 put into the atmosphere each year?<br />
Just fine my other posts on this site and read the answers.<br />
You are the programmed mindless droids of the new eugenics movement.<br />
Agenda 21,  SVCP, AGW, RAND<br />
Answers 0.038% or 380ppm and 0.7% FOOLS<br />
Because I know your programming has taught you to not look for the truth just beleve what the TV and Rothschild media empire tells you.</p>
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		<title>By: Scholars and Rogues &#187; Attempted break in at Canadian climate office</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-75195</link>
		<dc:creator>Scholars and Rogues &#187; Attempted break in at Canadian climate office</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 01:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-75195</guid>
		<description>[...] too early to say whether these attacks on CCCM and the UofVictoria are related to the illegal release personal emails from the Climate Research Unit, but the timing is certainly curious. In my experience, two incidents can be coincidence, but if [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] too early to say whether these attacks on CCCM and the UofVictoria are related to the illegal release personal emails from the Climate Research Unit, but the timing is certainly curious. In my experience, two incidents can be coincidence, but if [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Change in the Weather</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-74993</link>
		<dc:creator>Change in the Weather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-74993</guid>
		<description>[...] links discussing the entire issue from stem to stern. I also recommend reading David Roberts’ and Brian Angliss’  takes on it for further research and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] links discussing the entire issue from stem to stern. I also recommend reading David Roberts’ and Brian Angliss’  takes on it for further research and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-74868</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 03:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-74868</guid>
		<description>Bob,

First off, here&#039;s a fantastic &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mps.mpg.de/solar-system-school/lectures/jockers/asteroids1.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt; (with references in the slides - pages 8 and 10 especially) for how albedo is mathematically defined according to astrophysicists.  It appears not only that Wikipedia is wrong (and they&#039;re usually pretty good on raw science), but you and I have been using the wrong definition as well.  Albedo is clearly defined as the ratio of total emergent flux (ie reflected plus emitted energy) to total incident flux.  Ultimately, though, it doesn&#039;t matter.  The black-body temperature of a body is clearly altered by the ratio of the body&#039;s effective absorptivity over the body&#039;s effective emissivity, and so the temperature of the body can vary from the ideal according to that ratio.

Second, I&#039;m not trying to accurately model clouds et al.  I don&#039;t need to go to that level of detail to illustrate the errors in your equations.

Third, it appears that there are two competing definitions of a gray body.  Here&#039;s a few definitions from scattered places around the Web:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;any body that emits radiation at each wavelength in a constant ratio less than unity to that &lt;em&gt;emitted by a black body&lt;/em&gt; at the same temperature.&quot; Source: &lt;a href=&quot;http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gray+body&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dictionary.com&lt;/a&gt; (emphasis mine)

&quot;An energy radiator which has a &lt;em&gt;blackbody energy distribution&lt;/em&gt;, reduced by a constant factor, throughout the radiation spectrum or within a certain wavelength interval. Also known as nonselective radiator.&quot; Source: &lt;a href=&quot;http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/graybody&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;TheFreeDictionary.com&lt;/a&gt; (emphasis mine)

&quot;An energy radiator which has a &lt;em&gt;blackbody energy distribution&lt;/em&gt;, reduced by a constant factor, throughout the radiation spectrum or within a certain wavelength interval. The designation “gray” has no relation to the visual appearance of a body but only to its similarity in energy distribution to a blackbody.&quot; Source: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.accessscience.com/abstract.aspx?id=299400&amp;referURL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.accessscience.com%2fcontent.aspx%3fid%3d299400&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;accessScience Encyclopedia&lt;/a&gt; (emphasis mine)

&quot;A hypothetical body which absorbs some constant fraction, between zero and one, of all electromagnetic radiation incident upon it, which fraction is the absorptivity and is independent of wavelength. As such, a gray body represent a surface of absorptive characteristics intermediate between those of white body and a black body. No such substance are known in nature.&quot; Source: &lt;a href=&quot;http://er.jsc.nasa.gov/SEH/g.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NASA Goddard Space Flight Center definition&lt;/a&gt;

&quot;Bodies that emit less thermal radiation than a blackbody have surface emissivities &#949; less than 1. If the surface emissivity is independent of wavelength, then the body is called a &quot;gray&quot; body, in that no particular wavelength (or color) is favored.&quot; Source: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.efunda.com/formulae/heat_transfer/radiation/blackbody.cfm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Efunda.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
So NASA says it&#039;s a flat spectrum while the McGraw-Hill accessScience Encyclopedia of Science and Technology online says it&#039;s a black-body spectrum.  I&#039;m using the the blackbody energy distribution definition, as it more closely models reality than a flat spectral response gray body does.  Here&#039;s an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/emissivity.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;updated explanation in .pdf&lt;/a&gt;, based on the same data, but reformatted (since I didn&#039;t explain myself well enough the first time around).

Fourth, that&#039;s actually not where I got my 6000K thing - The average temperature of the Earth&#039;s surface (which isn&#039;t the Earth&#039;s black body radiation temperature, by the way - I&#039;ll illustrate this below, with my discussion on your problem with Venus) only matches your T&lt;sub&gt;sun&lt;/sub&gt;/21 if you boost the temperature up from 5778K to about 6000K.  Still, though, the difference is so small that it&#039;s within the noise when using four significant digits, so it&#039;s actually a small quibble.

Fifth, the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;University of East Anglia&#039;s Climate Research Unit&lt;/a&gt; may or may not get tax money from the UK government - I don&#039;t know.  But it&#039;s not the same as the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Met Office&lt;/a&gt;, which is the UK equivalent to the U.S. National Weather Service.  Also, neither you nor anyone else I&#039;ve read across has pointed out even a single scientific paper that the CRU emails invalidate.  It&#039;s put up or shut-up time on this one, Bob.

And finally, your errors with regard to Venus are included in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Venus.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this .pdf&lt;/a&gt;.  In summary, there are two possible ways that Venus&#039; surface could be as hot as it is - internal heating from either Venus&#039; core or a collision millions to hundreds of millions of years ago, or the greenhouse effect.  I disprove the internal heating hypothesis as the source of anywhere near enough energy to maintain the output energy, leaving the greenhouse effect as the only viable hypothesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob,</p>
<p>First off, here&#8217;s a fantastic <a href="http://www.mps.mpg.de/solar-system-school/lectures/jockers/asteroids1.pdf" rel="nofollow">link</a> (with references in the slides &#8211; pages 8 and 10 especially) for how albedo is mathematically defined according to astrophysicists.  It appears not only that Wikipedia is wrong (and they&#8217;re usually pretty good on raw science), but you and I have been using the wrong definition as well.  Albedo is clearly defined as the ratio of total emergent flux (ie reflected plus emitted energy) to total incident flux.  Ultimately, though, it doesn&#8217;t matter.  The black-body temperature of a body is clearly altered by the ratio of the body&#8217;s effective absorptivity over the body&#8217;s effective emissivity, and so the temperature of the body can vary from the ideal according to that ratio.</p>
<p>Second, I&#8217;m not trying to accurately model clouds et al.  I don&#8217;t need to go to that level of detail to illustrate the errors in your equations.</p>
<p>Third, it appears that there are two competing definitions of a gray body.  Here&#8217;s a few definitions from scattered places around the Web:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;any body that emits radiation at each wavelength in a constant ratio less than unity to that <em>emitted by a black body</em> at the same temperature.&#8221; Source: <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gray+body" rel="nofollow">Dictionary.com</a> (emphasis mine)</p>
<p>&#8220;An energy radiator which has a <em>blackbody energy distribution</em>, reduced by a constant factor, throughout the radiation spectrum or within a certain wavelength interval. Also known as nonselective radiator.&#8221; Source: <a href="http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/graybody" rel="nofollow">TheFreeDictionary.com</a> (emphasis mine)</p>
<p>&#8220;An energy radiator which has a <em>blackbody energy distribution</em>, reduced by a constant factor, throughout the radiation spectrum or within a certain wavelength interval. The designation “gray” has no relation to the visual appearance of a body but only to its similarity in energy distribution to a blackbody.&#8221; Source: <a href="http://www.accessscience.com/abstract.aspx?id=299400&#038;referURL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.accessscience.com%2fcontent.aspx%3fid%3d299400" rel="nofollow">accessScience Encyclopedia</a> (emphasis mine)</p>
<p>&#8220;A hypothetical body which absorbs some constant fraction, between zero and one, of all electromagnetic radiation incident upon it, which fraction is the absorptivity and is independent of wavelength. As such, a gray body represent a surface of absorptive characteristics intermediate between those of white body and a black body. No such substance are known in nature.&#8221; Source: <a href="http://er.jsc.nasa.gov/SEH/g.html" rel="nofollow">NASA Goddard Space Flight Center definition</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Bodies that emit less thermal radiation than a blackbody have surface emissivities &epsilon; less than 1. If the surface emissivity is independent of wavelength, then the body is called a &#8220;gray&#8221; body, in that no particular wavelength (or color) is favored.&#8221; Source: <a href="http://www.efunda.com/formulae/heat_transfer/radiation/blackbody.cfm" rel="nofollow">Efunda.com</a></p></blockquote>
<p>So NASA says it&#8217;s a flat spectrum while the McGraw-Hill accessScience Encyclopedia of Science and Technology online says it&#8217;s a black-body spectrum.  I&#8217;m using the the blackbody energy distribution definition, as it more closely models reality than a flat spectral response gray body does.  Here&#8217;s an <a href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/emissivity.pdf" rel="nofollow">updated explanation in .pdf</a>, based on the same data, but reformatted (since I didn&#8217;t explain myself well enough the first time around).</p>
<p>Fourth, that&#8217;s actually not where I got my 6000K thing &#8211; The average temperature of the Earth&#8217;s surface (which isn&#8217;t the Earth&#8217;s black body radiation temperature, by the way &#8211; I&#8217;ll illustrate this below, with my discussion on your problem with Venus) only matches your T<sub>sun</sub>/21 if you boost the temperature up from 5778K to about 6000K.  Still, though, the difference is so small that it&#8217;s within the noise when using four significant digits, so it&#8217;s actually a small quibble.</p>
<p>Fifth, the <a href="http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/" rel="nofollow">University of East Anglia&#8217;s Climate Research Unit</a> may or may not get tax money from the UK government &#8211; I don&#8217;t know.  But it&#8217;s not the same as the <a href="http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/" rel="nofollow">Met Office</a>, which is the UK equivalent to the U.S. National Weather Service.  Also, neither you nor anyone else I&#8217;ve read across has pointed out even a single scientific paper that the CRU emails invalidate.  It&#8217;s put up or shut-up time on this one, Bob.</p>
<p>And finally, your errors with regard to Venus are included in <a href="http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Venus.pdf" rel="nofollow">this .pdf</a>.  In summary, there are two possible ways that Venus&#8217; surface could be as hot as it is &#8211; internal heating from either Venus&#8217; core or a collision millions to hundreds of millions of years ago, or the greenhouse effect.  I disprove the internal heating hypothesis as the source of anywhere near enough energy to maintain the output energy, leaving the greenhouse effect as the only viable hypothesis.</p>
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		<title>By: Change In The Weather &#187; Boztopia.com</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-74856</link>
		<dc:creator>Change In The Weather &#187; Boztopia.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 22:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-74856</guid>
		<description>[...] discussing the entire issue from stem to stern. I also recommend reading David Roberts&#8217; and Brian Angliss&#8217; takes on it for further research and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] discussing the entire issue from stem to stern. I also recommend reading David Roberts&#8217; and Brian Angliss&#8217; takes on it for further research and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Armstrong</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-74777</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-74777</guid>
		<description>Damn , I like having HTML , but I wish it was possible to preview if not edit entries here .

The sentence :
&lt;i&gt;&quot;As you indicate , it is the ratio between the values for the half millionth of the sky from which we absorb heat from the sun , and the entire sky to which we emit at the earth’s average temperature .&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
Should be :
As you indicate , it is the ratio between the values for the half millionth of the sky from which we absorb heat from the sun , and the entire sky to which we emit at the earth’s average temperature which matters .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn , I like having HTML , but I wish it was possible to preview if not edit entries here .</p>
<p>The sentence :<br />
<i>&#8220;As you indicate , it is the ratio between the values for the half millionth of the sky from which we absorb heat from the sun , and the entire sky to which we emit at the earth’s average temperature .&#8221;</i><br />
Should be :<br />
As you indicate , it is the ratio between the values for the half millionth of the sky from which we absorb heat from the sun , and the entire sky to which we emit at the earth’s average temperature which matters .</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Armstrong</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-74776</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-74776</guid>
		<description>No , Brian , your &lt;i&gt;epsilon&lt;/i&gt; is albedo - which quantifies , in fact , not just reflectivity but absorptivity. As you indicate , it is the ratio between the values for the half millionth of the sky from which we absorb heat from the sun , and the entire sky to which we emit at the earth&#039;s average temperature . Your standard one-dimensional model can&#039;t correctly express that and therefore can&#039;t model even such things as possible change in cloud cover at night , or differences in albedo between poles and equator . ( in fact , technically , it is equivalent to modeling a point surrounded by a sphere at a uniform temperature - in which case , the point must inevitably come to the temperature of the surrounding sphere , no matter what its color . ) And your comments about gray bodies having different absorption and emission  are are just plain wrong . By definition , a gray body has a flat spectrum , so the SB T^4 relation between the area under the Planck curves for , eg , the sun&#039;s and earth&#039;s temperature hold exactly . The differences in absorption and emission are , as I have stated , due to the differences in correlation between a non-gray objects spectrum and that of it&#039;s sinks and sources .

I invite any readers of this blog to study my implementation at &lt;a href=&quot;http://cosy.com/Science/TemperatureOfGrayBalls.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://cosy.com/Science/TemperatureOfGrayBalls.htm&lt;/a&gt; to compare approaches . It&#039;s clear that both produce the same numbers , but understanding our temperature in terms of the difference between our absorption  from the small disk of the sun , and the entire rest of space reflects the reality more realistically . 

By the way ( 0 )  , Brian , I see where you got the idea that I was using 6000k . It&#039;s just a starting parameter for &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;K&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&#039;s search routine to keep the floating point from exploding . The answer would be the same with any starting point , eg , 5500 , so long as the calculations don&#039;t overflow , which does happen with a starting point of , eg , 0 .

By the way ( 1 ) , the tax funded Met office&#039;s behavior is inexcusable , but not that uncommon . It simply shows what I&#039;ve always argued ( from experience ) , that &lt;i&gt;peer review&lt;/i&gt; is just an &quot;old boys&quot; network and it&#039;s the deifying of it by the Statist alarmists has been the real religious fraud .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No , Brian , your <i>epsilon</i> is albedo &#8211; which quantifies , in fact , not just reflectivity but absorptivity. As you indicate , it is the ratio between the values for the half millionth of the sky from which we absorb heat from the sun , and the entire sky to which we emit at the earth&#8217;s average temperature . Your standard one-dimensional model can&#8217;t correctly express that and therefore can&#8217;t model even such things as possible change in cloud cover at night , or differences in albedo between poles and equator . ( in fact , technically , it is equivalent to modeling a point surrounded by a sphere at a uniform temperature &#8211; in which case , the point must inevitably come to the temperature of the surrounding sphere , no matter what its color . ) And your comments about gray bodies having different absorption and emission  are are just plain wrong . By definition , a gray body has a flat spectrum , so the SB T^4 relation between the area under the Planck curves for , eg , the sun&#8217;s and earth&#8217;s temperature hold exactly . The differences in absorption and emission are , as I have stated , due to the differences in correlation between a non-gray objects spectrum and that of it&#8217;s sinks and sources .</p>
<p>I invite any readers of this blog to study my implementation at <a href="http://cosy.com/Science/TemperatureOfGrayBalls.htm" rel="nofollow">http://cosy.com/Science/TemperatureOfGrayBalls.htm</a> to compare approaches . It&#8217;s clear that both produce the same numbers , but understanding our temperature in terms of the difference between our absorption  from the small disk of the sun , and the entire rest of space reflects the reality more realistically . </p>
<p>By the way ( 0 )  , Brian , I see where you got the idea that I was using 6000k . It&#8217;s just a starting parameter for <b><i>K</i></b>&#8217;s search routine to keep the floating point from exploding . The answer would be the same with any starting point , eg , 5500 , so long as the calculations don&#8217;t overflow , which does happen with a starting point of , eg , 0 .</p>
<p>By the way ( 1 ) , the tax funded Met office&#8217;s behavior is inexcusable , but not that uncommon . It simply shows what I&#8217;ve always argued ( from experience ) , that <i>peer review</i> is just an &#8220;old boys&#8221; network and it&#8217;s the deifying of it by the Statist alarmists has been the real religious fraud .</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-74769</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-74769</guid>
		<description>Actually, Bob, my ratio IS albedo (and so is yours).  I&#039;ll crank out a long-winded mathematical explanation of how sometime this weekend.

Also, I failed to point out that I was assuming that the Earth was a uniform, ideal material for those graphs.  However, my point was to illustrate that effective absorption and effective emission were NOT the same, and so the ratio would not be 1, even for a uniform ideal gray body.  And since a uniform ideal gray body has different effective absorption and emission coefficients, non-ideal bodies will also have different effective absorption and emission coefficients.

I&#039;ll see if I can&#039;t crank out the math for your Venus problem too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Bob, my ratio IS albedo (and so is yours).  I&#8217;ll crank out a long-winded mathematical explanation of how sometime this weekend.</p>
<p>Also, I failed to point out that I was assuming that the Earth was a uniform, ideal material for those graphs.  However, my point was to illustrate that effective absorption and effective emission were NOT the same, and so the ratio would not be 1, even for a uniform ideal gray body.  And since a uniform ideal gray body has different effective absorption and emission coefficients, non-ideal bodies will also have different effective absorption and emission coefficients.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll see if I can&#8217;t crank out the math for your Venus problem too.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-74768</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-74768</guid>
		<description>Ted, can you prove that CRU chose data to match their hypothesis?  I haven&#039;t seen any emails quoted that come even close to proof.

At this point there&#039;s no &lt;strong&gt;proof&lt;/strong&gt; that any of the science has been manipulated.  It&#039;s about the science, people, and the science hasn&#039;t changed as a result of this.  Even if a few dozen papers are found to be seriously flawed (and don&#039;t you think that we&#039;d have heard about that by now?  All I hear on the science front is crickets), those papers would barely scratch the surface of the overwhelming scientific evidence and fundamental physics underlying climate disruption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted, can you prove that CRU chose data to match their hypothesis?  I haven&#8217;t seen any emails quoted that come even close to proof.</p>
<p>At this point there&#8217;s no <strong>proof</strong> that any of the science has been manipulated.  It&#8217;s about the science, people, and the science hasn&#8217;t changed as a result of this.  Even if a few dozen papers are found to be seriously flawed (and don&#8217;t you think that we&#8217;d have heard about that by now?  All I hear on the science front is crickets), those papers would barely scratch the surface of the overwhelming scientific evidence and fundamental physics underlying climate disruption.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-74766</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-74766</guid>
		<description>What you should find hilarious is that Brian is not at all concerned that there must be something wrong with his data when it&#039;s extraordinarily higher than the even reported global average. If your city is higher than average, some station must be lower.  But what if turns out there is a staggering correlation between stations in cities and higher than average temps and other stations outside cities? Well, you can use factor analysis to isolate and build-in the effects in and run the data against that. And guess what? no one will find fault with you -- your results are open and others can see it. But if you go magically and secretly pulling datasets to fit your hypothesis and refuse to tell anyone where and when you pulled and poked, then you&#039;d be an idiot. Or CRU&#039;er.

It doesn&#039;t matter if the same data is available to anyone -- CRU doesn&#039;t say how the massages the data (though it admits it does) and then demands you take their results as gospel and if you don&#039;t you can&#039;t get in the peer club. That&#039;s not science and you should be offended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you should find hilarious is that Brian is not at all concerned that there must be something wrong with his data when it&#8217;s extraordinarily higher than the even reported global average. If your city is higher than average, some station must be lower.  But what if turns out there is a staggering correlation between stations in cities and higher than average temps and other stations outside cities? Well, you can use factor analysis to isolate and build-in the effects in and run the data against that. And guess what? no one will find fault with you &#8212; your results are open and others can see it. But if you go magically and secretly pulling datasets to fit your hypothesis and refuse to tell anyone where and when you pulled and poked, then you&#8217;d be an idiot. Or CRU&#8217;er.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter if the same data is available to anyone &#8212; CRU doesn&#8217;t say how the massages the data (though it admits it does) and then demands you take their results as gospel and if you don&#8217;t you can&#8217;t get in the peer club. That&#8217;s not science and you should be offended.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Angliss</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-74742</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Angliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 04:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-74742</guid>
		<description>Doug, let me ask you a couple of questions.  Do you have any proof that the scientists involved manipulated their data?  And if you were contractually obligated by another government to hold the data in confidence, would you break that contract because someone asked for the data, or would you abide by the terms of the legally binding contract?

CRU gets free weather station data from nations around the world who &lt;em&gt;sell&lt;/em&gt; that data to anyone else who asks for it.  CRU was contractually obligated to not release the data for that reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug, let me ask you a couple of questions.  Do you have any proof that the scientists involved manipulated their data?  And if you were contractually obligated by another government to hold the data in confidence, would you break that contract because someone asked for the data, or would you abide by the terms of the legally binding contract?</p>
<p>CRU gets free weather station data from nations around the world who <em>sell</em> that data to anyone else who asks for it.  CRU was contractually obligated to not release the data for that reason.</p>
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		<title>By: doug brockman</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-74740</link>
		<dc:creator>doug brockman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 04:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-74740</guid>
		<description>Oops make that 1984 please not 1952. It must be Goldstein who put in that error.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops make that 1984 please not 1952. It must be Goldstein who put in that error.</p>
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		<title>By: doug brockman</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-74739</link>
		<dc:creator>doug brockman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 04:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-74739</guid>
		<description>Yah there&#039;s nothing there all right. Just when trillions of dollars in infrastructure spending for questional purposes are being put to our world wide economies we find that a small group of scientists are refusing to share raw data, manipulating findings and quashing via a cabal the chances of opponents to publish. To me it wounds like George Orwell;s 1952. But to an Al Gore collectivist scientist I guess it is just business as usual....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yah there&#8217;s nothing there all right. Just when trillions of dollars in infrastructure spending for questional purposes are being put to our world wide economies we find that a small group of scientists are refusing to share raw data, manipulating findings and quashing via a cabal the chances of opponents to publish. To me it wounds like George Orwell;s 1952. But to an Al Gore collectivist scientist I guess it is just business as usual&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Thieves Complain About the Loot &#124; All In One Boat</title>
		<link>http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2009/11/20/climategate-not-likely/comment-page-2/#comment-74734</link>
		<dc:creator>Thieves Complain About the Loot &#124; All In One Boat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 19:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/?p=13105#comment-74734</guid>
		<description>[...] more good articles on the purloined letters see here [Real Climate], here [Scholars and Rogues,] and here [Climate Progress.] And, finally, a post by a philosopher of science who know many of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more good articles on the purloined letters see here [Real Climate], here [Scholars and Rogues,] and here [Climate Progress.] And, finally, a post by a philosopher of science who know many of [...]</p>
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